From WK -
I was over here at my girlfriend’s house studying when there was a knock at the front door… I answered the door and it was their neighbor.“Privyet!” said the smiling lady.
“Privyet!” I answered (happy to see it was one of the family’s Russian friends).
I invited her in and introduced myself before asking if there was anything she needed. She had come over to borrow two tomatoes because her husband wanted an avocado and tomato salad, but she forgot to buy tomatoes at the store…
My face lit up with appreciation for this loving, dedicated woman and her sincere desire to please her husband.
That, gentlemen, is EXACTLY what I’m talking about.
All of this happened as I sat in front of my books whilst eating a sandwich and drinking the coffee that was prepared and served to me by my beloved angel.
Coincidence? I think not.
When I passed this story on to a group of ladies with whom I was talking to today..
They were Completely Stunned that American Men would EVER take notice of something like this.
Or in other words..
They were MORE Surprised that WE Were Surprised that a Russian Woman would regularly prepare a meal in the manner that she does for her loved ones.
They were even more amazed when I told them that I had learn how to cook for myself a very long time ago.. And that most Men in the US also know how to cook for themselves too.
When ever this subject comes up in the company of Russian Women the question is ALWAYS the Same..
“Don’t American Women Cook?”
Now in all honesty how in the world do I answer this question..
- Have I seen American Women cooking in my life? Yes
- Have I seen this as part of a daily routine? Partially
- What is the attitude that most American Women have towards cooking when they cook at all? Often like it’s a pain in the rear
This is the key thing here Gentlemen.
Whenever I see Russian Women cooking for the ones they love it totally feels like a loving art form.
There are no gripes.. no moans or groans.. and no guilt trips.. It’s just truly something that comes from the heart because it’s part of their identity and the way they express themselves as Women.
As these group of lovely women continued to express their surprise by firing off more questions towards me..
I Started to have a Flashback..
I was transported back to when I first came to Russia and had one of my most vivid memories in relation to this.
Two Russian buddies of mine had brought home some beer, wine, sausages, cheese, fish, cucumbers, dumplings, pasta and bread from the store for a little impromptu gathering.
Immediately upon entering the door their two girlfriends automatically took the heavy bags, unloaded everything in the kitchen and proceeded to wash, cut, arrange, prepare and cook everything in perfect sync with each other as if they were doing it together for years.
But the really wild thing was that these women had just met each other for the very first time this evening.
Within 5 minutes we had glasses filled with beer and an elegant cheese and sausage plate cut up and arranged in an interlaced spiral pattern as if it came straight from a professional chef.
The men immediately sat and started to eat first.
In 15 more minutes we had a full spread of different cold and hot plate dishes just being served to us like it was some elegant kitchen ballet. There was a constant flow of graceful movement and not one second of hesitation or indecision in knowing what to do next from these ladies.
The only thing the girls asked the men to do was to select the music on the stereo as they topped it all off by neatly placing the glasses and wine bottles out along with a wine opener.
This was their silent signal for my friend to open up the first bottle of Bulgarian Red Wine while they continued to clean up and put everything away.
I Truly felt like I was in the Twilight Zone watching these 2 Beautiful Women accomplish this because..
One
I could have sworn that they could have done this blindfolded.
Two
I was truly a little embarrassed because I didn’t feel like I deserved to be on the receiving end of such loving service.
Three
Once I realized that this was something they did for their Men ALL THE TIME and because I was their guest.. that included me.. I finally started to relax a bit and fully take in one of life’s greatest pleasures.
(End Flashback and Back to the Present Moment..)
One of the girls in the group must have sensed that I was having a very wonderful day dream..
I think she also wanted to contribute to my dream when she said something even more astonishing to me. She was just beaming with the most beautiful sincere smile and you could feel the warm pride coming from her as she softly said..
“They say that a real Russian Home should always have the smell of a good warm soup lingering in the air.”
When she said that I swore I could literally have tasted the delicious steaming textures of that soup with my taste buds.
And it made me realize that if I every had any doubts in knowing what Heaven on Earth is truly supposed to be..
Then I think I just got a quick glimpse of it with her words..
November 7, 2006 at 5:13 pm
After reading this, I made a list of every significant relationship I’ve ever had. None of them really cooked. Pulling macaroni out of a box or heating a can of something or other in the microwave doesn’t count. A few had a handful (generally 3 or less) of dishes they could prepare, but after looking at the list in black and white, I just realized that I’ve done the cooking 95% of the time (or more). Fortunately I’m skilled at it.
Can we blame this phenomonon on feminism? Absolutely. I would surmise that large numbers of women leaving the home for the workplace was one of the factors that led to the rise of convenience foods, among other things, that negate the need for being able to take raw, fresh ingredients and do something with them. Maybe one of your elder readers can give us a comparison between today and days gone by with respect to this topic.
November 7, 2006 at 5:39 pm
It is more than just about convenience. In no way, shape or form do American women want to please their men. (It is all about THEM. SO be prepared to bend over backwards for your woman while she does nothing in return except complain.) Cooking for the average American woman is tantamount to SLAVERY. That’s right. In their minds, when they were granted the *freedom* to go out and work, they gained the right to refuse (to learn how) to cook.
If you expect your girlfriend to make you a sandwich or bring you a beer while you sit there, then you are a chauvanist pig.
One girl said to me “What are you going to do about it? There are no domestic women anymore.” I said “That’s why I’m going to marry a(n) [insert ethnicity here]“. She says “Well you can have your [racial insult here].”
Yes, American women are lovely, but not for enlightened men who know better.
November 7, 2006 at 5:44 pm
Excellent Post. It’s one of things about girls that I always observe.
Not much I like to say too much about myself, but it’s just what my friends say… I have a reputation for being the best chef along with my friends and my family. Cooking is just one of things that I really enjoy doing. My family makes me to do some cooking for them at some family gatherings. They kept talking so much about how good food are, my cooking and how I can produce such upscale restaurant-level food.
I actually taught myself all of those cooking when I grew up all of my life. I’ve been home alone so many times due to my parents being out to working. So, I was just being creative with food and wanted to make them into greatest looking and delicious meal. To me, food is a true art with some science of nutrition!
In fact, I have NOT met any American girls that can cook equally good or better than me. It is telling a lot about the current American society.
As one of my tests for my prospective girlfriend, I make her to cook for me and see how well they do with their cooking and preparing the meal. Also, their selection for meals. You know what? All of young American girls I hang out with didn’t pass my test for cooking. It’s a necessary test to find out if she has skills it takes to be an awesome and greatest wife in the world!
American girls always take all of those processed garbages and those frozen meal for burning them up in the microwave. I personally hate microwaves. They turn food into cardboard garbage. Also, they spend too much of money going out to eat. No wonder why they get so overweight and fat from overworking and spending less time cooking real homegrown food.
You can tell that to those Russian folks about how good American men can cook! LOL
November 7, 2006 at 7:32 pm
My ex’s idea of cooking was from the freezer, KFC or MacDonald’s. More pathetic news for America. How could we live without the microwave.
But now, I’m finding I can be somewhat creative myself in the kitchen. Within reason anyway. I miss the love within the meal.
November 7, 2006 at 7:41 pm
This post is awesome and true…. I can remember the days when my mom would cook or my grandmother and aunts. This is a lost art. American woman have it so easy here. They have meals that can be prepared in 5 minutes or a half hour and still it seems like a inconvience for them. Well guys we just cant win…..
November 7, 2006 at 9:05 pm
I have thousands of similar stories. I never was surprised, because I was raised to expect that type of behavior. In my family, the boundries were clearly defined. Now to all the feminist trolls, my mother was not passive, weak or the many other tired cliches. Ever met a passive and weak Italian woman??? They do not exist. It is the same with Russian and Slavic women. A girlfriend, fiancee or wife cooks for her special guy is out of love and RESPECT. Always remember the word respect. It speaks volumes on how little attention modern American women spend on the fine art of preparing a meal. Take the time to prepare and then enjoy it.
My grandmothers, aunts and mother knew the times were changing. So I had crash courses in good Tuscan recipes. They did not want me to live on a diet of microwave, fast food and take out. I have a list of friends, ex-girlfriends and room mates who miss my cooking style.
November 7, 2006 at 9:43 pm
I have to agree, I have tonnes of stories like that. The best one I have is that my father was in the military for 20 years, and at the beginning of their marriage (my mother married him when she was about 19-20) he had to be shipped off to basic training and such, so he was missing for a small portion of my childhood. I do remember when he came back my mom would always have a large meal, considering our budget, on the table, hot and waiting. Even if it was something as simple as porkchops and potatoes, she’d always have it ready for him when he got home. That was always the main thing for me, because it was always about being happy to see him instead of how much money they could blow at a resturant.
so at 10 my mom called me into the kitchen and gave me a knife and told me to cut potatoes. I’ve been cooking ever since!
November 7, 2006 at 9:47 pm
It brings me so much joy knowing that I can prepare a nice meal for my beloved. From a young age my mom has taught me how to not only cook the best russian cuisine but also the importance of presentation of the food. She taught me the importance of being able to prepare a nice meal for your family and especially if you are having company over. I grew up in the kitchen beside my mom and sister cooking for our family and friends. It is definetely something else that is embeded in our culture, something we simply love to do. It is so good to know that my family will never have to live off of junk food and microwaved meals.
November 7, 2006 at 9:51 pm
As I am back to the bachelor thing again, please don’t knock my microwave too much. It gets the job done and at a fraction of the electricity of the old oven.
Anxiously anticipating sharing time with my beloved preparing a meal together though. It will be again. I can feel it.
November 7, 2006 at 10:35 pm
I fully respect your right to use the microwave. However, I myself never ever use microwave for preparing my food. I only cook from stovetop or oven.
Here’s the article on dangers of using microwave. It’s your freedom of choice, but you still need to remember the price you are paying to use the microwave oven.
http://www.mercola.com/article/microwave/hazards.htm
http://www.mercola.com/article/microwave/hazards2.htm
It’s a fact that the Soviet bannned the use of microwave in 1976. Those Russians are smart enough to use real and homegrown food cooking from stove/oven.
November 8, 2006 at 12:07 am
The only women I know personally who can cook better than me are either born abroad, or my sister. Very few younger American women I’ve met thus far are good at cooking, most think tossing something in the microwave is cooking.
Taras
November 8, 2006 at 5:44 am
I was quite lucky in that my MOTHER, GRANDMOTHER were alive when I was young. They both insisted that I learn how to cook and they were the best teachers a student could have. Today I am an excellent cook and look forward to cooking for my FSU lady. I also look forward to eating what she will cook for me. My lady has already started to ask me what I like, in fact she is insisting that I tell her my favorites in advance of my trip to the FSU.
These ladies want to please their man in every way.
November 8, 2006 at 5:18 pm
Hey! That’s guite normal here in Russia. Girls are taught to cook since childhood. And they know how to arrange something nice and tasty. And it’s not a problem. They don’t feel abused by doing it. Sometimes they even kick guys out of kitchen, so they won’t mass anything up.
November 8, 2006 at 6:16 pm
you know there is a saying: stomach is on the way to mens’ hearts, or however it should sound in english
I for example hate cooking, but I do it, as seing a man eating with a pleasure and his expression is the best reward hehe
in poland that start to change, and more and more women stop cooking, but it is still most of them being great house wifes (somethimes also working, and still making everything work fine) and lets hope that wont change soon
on a contrary i still think men are cooking much beter than women do hahah
greetz
November 9, 2006 at 11:40 am
Just shows what a vast and empty desert relationships with American women have become.
I have you beat though: my girlfriends are Vietnamese, and VN cuisine beats anything the Russians have put together
November 9, 2006 at 12:27 pm
Here it is…
On behalf of Russian Women (RW) may I swear love to Western Men (WM) for your kitchen attitudes!
1. For your OWN love and talent for cooking… It’s sooooo touching, even more than OUR RW cooking to you WM starved by WW! When I face this “chefdom” all the way (funnily even with RM too), still can’t help melting ))
2. For your appreciation of OUR cooking! Generally, RM take women’s cooking (etc.) for granted. Moreover, they tend to place no value on RW’s domestic contribution to their general well-being, - as RM show it blatantly, from their “who-is-better” talks - and to divorce disputes (despite the _legal_ recognition).
3. For your sharing, responsible and respectful approach to housework. Every time a RM asks a RW if she can cook, just as he starts growing slightest likes for her, or still before – even in the first 15 minutes of acquaintance! – a RW suppresses a big GRRRR… Is It Really The Foremost Thing They Need Us For?? See above and get sad…
well, why complain? WM say, “I can teach you if you want, or just sit near as I am cooking, and entertain me!” :-*****
4. For your dietary habits. Those RW who love with their stomachs - demand mountains of heavy, indigestible sophisticated combinations that CAN turn cooking into round-the-clock slavery, and account for early disease mortality…
Conclusion:
So far that cooking is a celebration, not routine (isn’t it why Men are better cooks?;)),
and as you perceive it as Lovemaking as opposed to Spousal Duty,
we would LOVE to treat you to OUR delices and savour YOUR art… long live small restaurants and joint cooking, who needs microvaves!
Sorry for emotions… rejoicing at WM for all our kin… as you could never know what passions hide under a Russian Wife’s (TM) keep-the-face smile…
Salutations, Comrade Natalia
November 9, 2006 at 1:28 pm
Hi Natalia, could you elaborate a tad on the feelings and asperations of RW in general? It sounds interesting but I’m not completely up on the email jargon used.
I too can cook but the demands of so many other things deter from my expertise within the confines of the kitchen.
Canajun
November 9, 2006 at 2:34 pm
Hi Canajun,
glad to see you interested in what I decided to dedicate my blog to: the things we never tell a man but want them be or not to be (so very RW-like!) ))
I have envisaged categories on “RW Wants, Feels, Tolerance” within “In RUW Hearts, Souls, Minds”, “RMW philosophy”. (5.1., 5.3., 6.1.) If you or the illustrous fellowship might suggest some better category names, I am most grateful!
I commit to step forward with a comprehensive generalization as soon as the material “crystallizes” and finds time for itself… Meanwhile, there are a few miscellaneous posts.
Archive list here: http://russianwomenspeak.wordpress.com/tag/russian-women-ukraine-women-dating-marriage/)
Most relevant to your request:
http://russianwomenspeak.wordpress.com/2006/10/02/the-top-must-read-to-understand-and-enchant-a-russian-woman/
Also a clear picture in my post on RW and Feminism, but quoting it in this thread is rather off-topic. )
*TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN*
Sorry for the illegible sidebar! just doing my first stumbles into HTML and search engine optimization, all by the feel… already knowing how to change text fonts (and editing old posts now), but the sidebar settings I can’t hack! ((( Can anyone help? )
BRGDS
November 9, 2006 at 2:57 pm
The more I hear, the more I know I have to get out of this place…
What job do you do in Russia to be able to live there? I would live abroad if I could, but I don’t know what I would do for work.
November 9, 2006 at 8:38 pm
Well, Twister there are many aways to work in a foreign country. I went to Russia as an exchange student. Then I got a job teaching English with a school associated with Moscow State University. Also, I made money on the side being a private tutor.
There are plenty of US and European companies that have subsidaries in Russia and the FSU. Any positions are available. IT, accounting, sales etc, etc. There are plenty of sites out there for overseas employment and advice on moving to another country.
My way was different, because I started out through two universities that did most of the paperwork for me. All I had to do was show up at the airport. Now, I visit at least twice a year to Russia and the Ukraine.
November 10, 2006 at 7:14 am
I have to agree. I like women (especially the sex part). I like to talk to them, etc. BUT…
Very few remember to look after their man. I suppose it’s starts at the very beginning of any male-female relationship. We spoil them, and they expect it. It’s our western culture, and of course we’ll do almost anything to get our short term goals satisfied. So they grow up spoiled and it goes on and on.
The last girlfriend could barely make a sandwich for herself, never mind offering to make me one at the same time. I had to move on. That’s not a relationship. That was heading towards an adoption.
November 10, 2006 at 9:09 am
Hi Barney,
you know what the irony is? RUSSIAN WOMEN WANT WESTERN MEN TO SPOIL RUSSIAN WOMEN! The only difference is that we are accustomed to look afer our men - SO THAT TO RETURN THE SAME ATTITUDE.
Will soon write a couple of posts on this topic.
Take care,
Comrade Natalia
November 10, 2006 at 4:27 pm
Johnreeds~
As a former kitchen manager of an Asian restaurant, I can say with great confindence that I not only love eating VN food, but enjoy preparing it as well…
…and any man who appreciates his significant other’s culture and cuisine will undoubtedly lean toward that genre of food.
However, to say that Vietnamese food tops Russian food would be like saying that the invention of fire is better than that of the wheel - in other words, feel free to enjoy your pork spring rolls; I’m quite happy with my pirozhky
By the way gents - if you like to cook as much as I do, check out this site: http://ruscuisine.com/ Damn I’m hungry!!!
November 10, 2006 at 5:46 pm
Thanks for the website, WK. Too bad that I’m already full from my wonderful lunch.
I’ll cook some interesting Russian food for myself and my family.
There’s an interesting discussion about Russian wife in the forum of that website.
November 10, 2006 at 10:58 pm
All Hails,
taking steps to keep my promises about RW Secrets:
http://russianwomenspeak.wordpress.com/2006/11/10/happy-friendly-smiling-russian-ladies-keep-the-face-mentality/
Mildly )
Natalia
November 10, 2006 at 10:58 pm
All Hails,
taking steps to keep my promises about RW Secrets:
http://russianwomenspeak.wordpress.com/2006/11/10/happy-friendly-smiling-russian-ladies-keep-the-face-mentality/
Tenderly )
Natalia
November 11, 2006 at 6:13 am
I think everything said here is great. I believe that as guys we should be able to take care of ourselves and cooking is at the top of the list. But women (esp. western European and American) who bring nothing but their bodies to the table should at least develop some domestic skills. Of course you don’t marry them just for that!
But about the “Dangers of Microwaves” That’s pure bullshit. The article was so ridiculous I just had to address it, please I don’t want you to be taken in by that nonsense. Microwaves have longer wavelengths and lower energies than visible light, although the power delivered from the actual device is much higher.
The “violent” transition between isomers happens all the time in the body by enzymes called isomerases.
As far as the “thermic” effects of destroying the electric potentials. Electric and chemical gradients are used to power transport of material (active transport) in and out of the living cell, and to prevent it from bursting or shriveling (hypo and hypertonic situations). None of this matters when you’re eating because its broken down anyway, lol.
And the cancer thing: A great deal of energy is required to disrupt the hydrogen Adenine-Thymine or Guanine-Cytosine bonds in DNA through electromagnetic radiation. Regular light can’t do it (obviously) only lower frequency (higher energy) light can. Even the energy delivered to the food from the microwave is released as heat when you eat it, it does not release high energy (uv and beyond) radiation. Unless you are sitting in the microwave while it’s on, you have nothing to worry about
The studies (what studies?) about eating microwaved food causing cancers most likely comes from the preservatives used in SOME foods than the process itself, lol.
As for some of the conclusions, let’s look at some of the claims made at the end:
Eating microwaved food “shorts out” electrical impulses in the brain by depolarizing:
Neurons (nerve cells) undergo depolarization all the time, in fact it is the influx of primarily sodium ions into the cytosol that results in a positive action potential. This phenomenon is required to propogate signals down the axon. There’s no way “microwaved” foods could affect that unless they release proteins that somehow bind neurotransmitters/receptors (nope). Even if that was the case they would be denatured from the microwave process.
The human body breaks down unknown substances all the time. That’s why people who have had blood/skin transplants have to take immunosuppresants to prevent their bodies from attacking themselves.
Continual ingestion of microwaved food causes immune system deficiences through lymph gland and blood serum alterations (lol the guy throws in anatomy/physiology terms to distract and confuse) Total bullshit.
Look, I’m an open minded guy and am actually in to meditation. But I am also educated and am not going to be taken in by these hucksters. Don’t allow the same to happen to you.
November 11, 2006 at 3:25 pm
Thank you for your interesting post about scientific discussions about body and food and microwave. I appreciate a different perspective like yours.
You made good points about body and its properties. In this post, I’m talking more about how microwaves affect taste and textures of food itself. That does not relate to your points about science and functions of body.
From my years of experiments of microwaves and oven, I found that food coming out of oven is much more tasty than microwaved food. For example, I wanted to heat up two slices of leftover frozen pizza from Papa John’s. I put one slice in microwave and the other one in the oven heated at 400 degrees. How they turned out? Microwaved pizza crust turned into stale very quickly and taste like a soft paper towel while the vegetables and meat tasted so plain and dull. The pizza coming out of oven is almost similar to the newly made pizza and tasted so different from microwaved pizza. Imagine how bread tastes when it was heated by microwaves instead of oven.
It was the same for homemade lasagna, casseroles and on and on. I’d rather to eat food that taste quite delicious and much more original. I still don’t use microwaves at all and still won’t use it at all in the future.
November 11, 2006 at 3:30 pm
It must be rememberd that microwaves can be deadly if you are irradiated with them. Exposure to microwave radiation has caused cancers and leukemia. Equipment such as radars can actually turn a person into a living torch or cook him or her alive. Industries worldwide have machines that can melt materials in seconds with high powreed beams of microwaves, just use the right resonance frequency for a given material and it melts. I know for a fact how dangerous microwave radiation can be, when I worked on naval vessels at a local shipyard, we were warned not to go into certain areas when the radars were being operated. Crewmen have told me what happens to birds who fly near the radar emitters also. Where this ties into microwave ovens is that an oven with a faulty door can expose you to harmful amounts of microwave radiation. If the door won’t close properly, then don’t use the oven, repair or replace it. I doubt microwaves can turn food toxic, but there’s no doubt that exposure to them is not good for you.
Taras
November 11, 2006 at 6:39 pm
QuietRebel:
Well your post said there were dangers in heating food with microwaves. I’m assuming that’s why you posted those two links. As far as enjoying eating food from oven, that’s fine and understandable, I was addressing the arguments you put up there–they’re totally false.
Taras: Absolutely, I think I addressed that in the first part, of course the power delivered in the device is huge, but that doesn’t mean the food is somehow going to be “morphed” into a cancer causing variety.
You are totally right, that one shouldn’t use a microwave w/ a broken door
I’m just referring to the faulty logic and scare tactics used in the article.
November 11, 2006 at 10:17 pm
We had a saying here in america that, “Only the pure of heart can make a good soup(or stew)”.
It comes compassion, consideration, graceful attitude and understanding when a woman cooks for a man. Women must enjoy cooking as a source of personal satisfaction because they are giving their best for him.
That is what I want to see from russian women when I go there; give me all your effort and determination and dedication and also be graceful.
I copied this piece from one of the above site links: [Happy and Friendly?! Russian ladies' "Keep the face" mentality]
Humble as she looks, a Russian Woman has vast wants and needs, contained. She is as optimistic as to expect her aspirations to be known and satisfied without her announcing them, - and as pessimistic as to presume nobody’s going to make her dreams come true.
I recognized something crucial about integrity here between Ameri-con women and RW
and that is they both want but crucially(and this is the right attitude in my view)RW are not so optimistic as to be delusional, they should realize that some pessimism is required as a balance so as not to be so let down when you lose something, or “it does not work out”.
Furthermore if this is true: “A Russian Lady Doesn’t Brag” then that is another key difference between AW and RW, because AW always wants to be praised for everything no matter how insignificant, AW has “look at me” disorder.
And I like this as well, a key quality to have from my certain point of view as a man:
Russian Women are extremely self-critical. What it implies is not inferiority, but higher standards. If she says she’s looking “horrible”, it means apology for looking not as gorgeous as she can be, and seeking to be reassured that she’s still lovable and loved (or endearing and approved – in respect to strangers). “Agreeable appearance” means indeed attractive, and “a couple extra kilos” you would hardly ever notice.
This self-criticism is essential to please men it is a showing of making an effort to improve oneself for the benefit of others.
It is a way of showing self-lessness and compassion, consideration and understanding.
Yes all these RW qualities are excellent for wife and children, and a stable home life.
Here in America it is not like that but we men survive and struggle for the ideals we set out to achieve for the better of everyone.
Thank You.
I hoped this provided some inspiration and determination not to give up!
November 11, 2006 at 11:46 pm
This is a revised version of the previous comment I had made (.30), for what its worth, From C.
Dear friends I hope you are all well and in good spirit,
We have an old saying here in America that, “Only the pure of heart can make a good soup(or stew)”.
Women show their compassion, consideration, graceful attitude and understanding when they cook for a man. Women must enjoy cooking as a source of personal satisfaction/gratification because they are “giving their all” /giving their best for his enjoyment. When I read the story above, From WK , I was confident in my satisfaction that justice had been served for these men and women. What I mean is justice can show itself in different forms and it is an awesome thing to recognize it when it happens! What a satisfying quality for women to possess when they do something graceful and then in total humility just smile modestly, knowing that men have recognized that they have done the right thing! (And what a turn on, better than sex, when justice is fulfilled) How I yearn for the days when I go to capture my RW, but for now I will have to just watch and wait patient.
That is what I want to see from Russian women when I visit Russia eventually; Russian Women, give me all your effort, determination, dedication, trust and also be graceful. That is all Men ask, and it is “easy as pie” to do! Men are complicated but we want little and expect you(RW) to do your best in everything you do. My view is that it is better to give than to receive.
I copied this piece from one of the site links above, Thank You in advance to its author: [Happy and Friendly?! Russian ladies’ “Keep the face(faith)” mentality]
Humble as she looks, a Russian woman has vast wants and needs, contained. She is as optimistic as to expect her aspirations to be known and satisfied without her announcing them, - and as pessimistic as to presume nobody’s going to make her dreams come true.
I recognized something crucial about RWs integrity (if it is true?) when reading this piece because I had a memory of hearing this phrase (perhaps in a movie?) about “RW being in great spirit/attitude, but not being unrealistic/unsatisfied about her expectations of men/or others”(if this is true, How pleasant and graceful is that?)
This pleasant personality/character trait, is RW “want”, but crucially RW are not so optimistic as to be delusional or spoiled (a disgraceful trait of current AW). RW should realize that some pessimism is proper/ actually required in life as a balance/ a fact of real life, so as not to be so let down when, for instance, you experience “losses”, This is a realization that life can be great but, “you have to be able to take the good with the bad, and learn from it” a.k.a. “put your best face on” OR “put your best foot forward”.
Furthermore, (if this is true?): “A Russian Lady Doesn’t Brag”. That is another key difference between AW here and RW there. Because AW always want to be praised/recognized for everything they do, no matter how insignificant, AW have “look at me” disorder, which stems from AWs childhood dysfunction/ unhealthiness.
This is another quality that is important to me for a woman to possess/understand and I am pleased that RW do possess it:
Russian Women (RW) are extremely self-critical. What this means is not about her inferiority, but a want of personal improvement and of higher standards ( which is awesome!!. If she says she’s looking “horrible”, it means apology for looking not as gorgeous as she should be, and seeking to be reassured that she’s still lovable and loved (or endearing and approved – in respect to strangers). “Agreeable appearance” means indeed attractive, and “a couple extra kilos” you would hardly ever notice.
This self-criticism is essential for personal development and to please men. Self criticism is a way of showing men that you are making an effort to improve yourself for the benefit of others; and of being selfless and graceful (which is an incredible “turn on” to me for sure!). It is a way of showing self-lessness/grace, compassion, consideration and understanding. In opposition, AW would rather criticize men, or externalize their criticism onto others rather than criticize themselves! This abrasive trait of AW is extremely abhorrent to me.
Oh, and another thing RW need to understand is that AW are insecure about doing feminine tasks, or of being feminine at all, AW have lost their feminine identity/”marriage-ability” which suited them and have taken on an abrasive(rough), slutty, aggressive(bragging,abusive) and angry(swearing/emotional hatred) position with American men and others. AW have little or no knowledge of how to cook or clean (even their own room)! This may be surprising to RW, but it is the bitter and unfourtunate truth for men in America today.
Yes, and all these subtle RW qualities are excellent for a wife and children, and a stable home life. Yes I want a beautiful and healthy Russian woman for my children and that woman must also possess the right personal qualities for me to be interested in them. AW are somewhat pretty here in America, but only from the point of view that: a thoroughbred horse is nice to look at but it is not marrigiable! To sum up with a comment from a previous post in “Russian Women”: Put Up or Shut Up.
My point is: AW have nothing on RW!
In all seriousness, I survive and struggle for the ideals I set out to achieve for the better of everyone, I can do everything from Cooking to delivering Justice and I only want a woman that will compliment my achievements
I could elaborate even further as I feel passionately about this subject and I have a doubtless point of view about the position and purpose of men and women in life.
Thank You for considering my point of view.
I hoped this provided some inspiration and determination to always give your best for the better of everyone!
November 12, 2006 at 3:13 pm
The reason why I pointed that out HaroldZoid is the fact that a microwave oven has a magentron that is basically the same thing that radar sets use to beam microwaves outwards. The first microwaves really were RADAR ranges, they used an emitter identical to many old models of RADAR systems. Newer ones don’t use a magetron well made enough for a RADAR set, but they work in exactly the same manner. The inventor of the microwave oven was in fact a RADAR engineer who carried chocolate bars in his pockets, and whenever he was near the equipment he was testing, they melted in his pockets! Like many other people who were working around this sort of equipment before the dangers were fully understood, he did die of the radiation ecposure he received from leukemia if I’m not mistaken.
Taras
November 12, 2006 at 4:18 pm
Yes indeed. This sounds like my wife (Japanese) exactly.
She cooks her ass off, and she really enjoys doing it. She even has this notebook with recipes in it, neatly written and highly organized.
It’s my impression that women from old cultures (e.g. Russia, Japan, Korea, etc) really know how to take care of business in the kitchen.
The American woman that can match a Russian (or Japanese) woman in the kitchen (or anywhere else for that matter) is quite rare.
November 14, 2006 at 2:31 am
OHHHHH… almost got a heartache…
C., what do you mean by “delivering Justice”? Please restore my belief in humanity! ))) Hope the “position and purpose of… women in life” to you is not that of a “draught horse” as opposed to “race horse”?! The “draught horse” concept is an attitude that many Russian women suffer from their local men, this is the main reason why they consider [those]Western men [who are cultured to "give their all" too - otherwise what for should they all "give you all their effort, determination, dedication, trust and also be graceful"??], and changing her life only to face the same expectation of robotic “total silent humility” is one of the reasons why a Russian wife would “turn 180 away from international marriage, slam the door and burn the house down [understanding it figuratively - N.O.]” as RW once wrote.
This is the very pessimistic impression I got from your impression from my post )) which I have written just to dispel a popular delusion about Russian women’s unrequited service.
“She is as optimistic as to expect her aspirations to be known and satisfied without her announcing them”. Pessimism is just another reason of not voicing them, which makes it still more important for the man to find out those needs and satisfy them, otherwise a Russian woman DOES feel let down, frustrated, and her character deteriorates (you never heard a Russian wife after several years of a “horse” marriage with no energy and feelings left for sex… anв probably have not read up to the place where I mentioned the role of women’s frustration in Russian revolutions.)
“She doesn’t brag…. yet she DOES need praise, the more than she objects…” hey, isn’t being worth praise and praising her man a better way to “make him satisfied” than her self-criticism??
and, sorry, how do the “most masculine” men survive without a wife to do the “feminine” cleaning? Lost in dirt? Is their masculinity so fragile that it’s threatened by touching house appliances?
Well, declaring your position when meeting Russian women is all right. Everyone should be aware of each other’s most important points to decide if the match works.
Sincerely, Natalia
November 14, 2006 at 11:20 am
So good you explain Wonderlander. The more you explain in this special way, the more you reveal the truth of which you speak. I hope all women I meet could bring such visions to my mind with simple yet eloquent words and the way you use them.
Thank you.
Canajun
November 16, 2006 at 7:54 am
Let me get this right. The woman must always cook for the man.
Say, right after giving birth, she’d better get into that kitchen and rattle those pots and pans, and no complaints about the pain she’s in.
Or she never gets ill or sick or tired to the point where she cannot cook or clean.
I know this one will never be posted. You men are selfish, selfish, selfish selfish!
And–before you say a word. I cook, clean sew. I make clothing for fun. I am an outstanding gourmet cook. But I cook for people who RESPECT me as a person and who do not view me as an object. I am also a professional accountant and a very busy officer of a figure skating club.
But none of that for you. All you want is a stepford wife who will fetch your beer and rub your stinking feet.
Sheesh!
November 17, 2006 at 11:29 pm
brensgrrl- sound’s like a grrrrrlpower name ;D
I don’t think you quite understand the article that well. It did nothing to say that women should cook even when she is ill or in pain; I see no mention of that. All it said was that women should cook for their men because it’s a huge sign of love and devotion. If you’re cooking for someone who disrespects you, then you shouldn’t be in that relationship in the first place.
I don’t think being a professional has to do anything with cooking personally. Sorry if I can’t make that correlation.
All these guys want is a woman who’ll treat them like a man.If it makes my husband’s day to “fetch his beer and rub his stinking feet”, then I’ll do that to make him happy.
November 18, 2006 at 12:15 am
Well put Kara, and conversely women want men who’ll treat them like women too. Lots of men cook, professionals or not, and I agree with you that one has nothing to do with the other. I’m college educated and I cook frequently,it’s no big deal. I cook for my mother when she doesn’t feel up to doing it herself, and I did the same for my ex wife too. Besides, women and men too forget in any relationship there’s give and take, it’s a two-way street instead of what one can gain for him or herself. Brensgrrl and her ilk forget women always have had power. It’s just not the same as men’s, but no less potent or important.
Taras
November 18, 2006 at 1:05 am
bensgrrl- you’re an accountant, an officer of a figure skating club AND a gourmet cook. I don’t think so.
Try a professional cashier, an assistant go-fer and a professional microwaver and oven heater-upper.
November 18, 2006 at 4:49 am
brensgrrl Says:
November 16th, 2006 at 7:54 am
“Let me get this right. The woman must always cook for the man.”
In a word… Yes!!
Don’t hate lady. Just because you haven’t washed a dish since 1979, don’t be coming up in here talking foolishness, ya hear??
Go on somewhere.
Grown folks is talking here!
November 19, 2006 at 2:37 am
Taras: Thanks ;D. I know my mother taught my father how to cook, and he willingly did so so he could impress her. She’s told me this story over and over, but she came home one day (they were very poor) and he had cooked her porkchops. However, they didnt have enough spices and swapped some, like cinnamon for cajun! They had kraft dinner for supper that night, but she’s never forgotten it.
Kzarz, she might be what I call a “convient” cook. She probably doesn’t cook anything that takes too much time, and buys packs of frozen veggies instead of fresh. I’ve known quite a few “professional” gals whom have thought that this was “cooking”. Imagine the look on their faces while I made a full 3 course meal!
November 19, 2006 at 2:46 am
To Natalie,
You have misunderstood what I said.
I only said nice things about your people.
Do not get frustrated, that is no way to pass a test.
It is just nice to hear a story of women doing traditional work and getting enjoyment/fullfillment from it, seeing that others are happy and not just her own interests being fullfilled.
When men are being genuine you just have to accept that what they tell you is true or else you can not understand our point of view.
Do not assume anything that is dangerous and leads to arguments.
I hope that you and others can understand my point of view.
Sincerely, C
November 20, 2006 at 2:10 am
Women in the US cook and real well too, and we know how to please our men just like Russian women. Thank you!!!!!
November 20, 2006 at 1:14 pm
Jodi, you really have to start observing some women outside of your circle of friends.
November 20, 2006 at 2:11 pm
jodi- I agree that some American women can cook but I think most are convenient cooks. When I was single, I was that way too but do they (American females) ENJOY cooking for their families like the Russian ladies that I have met? These ladies just absolutely ADORE cooking for their families. They think of cooking not a chore but a chance for the entire family to bond. Nothing is better for a Russian lady than to have her husband and her children ask for seconds. From expereince, my mother-in law made the most delicious meals. She had so many main courses, it was like being in a 5 star Russian restaurant. And she did this with a smile, never once complaining how difficult it is. My wife is the same way, she hates it when I have business dinner meetings (which is a rartiy) and she looks forward to me coming home and chowing down her food. Sad to say, the ladies that I have dated in the past NEVER cooked for me. They expected me to take them out to dinner on our dates. And when I tried to cook for them, it was met with picky eating and after-criticism.
And Jodi, I agree with Hero. Take the time to observe womens behavior and dress in the malls and ask various single males about the sad state of affairs of dating and finding the right woman. And then you’ll see why blogs such as this one is resonating among us males. As for me, I was turned off and turned away by so many PROFESSIONAL women, it was hilarious. Now these same women are talking to me when they see my wedding ring. Go figure.
November 23, 2006 at 11:40 am
I think you guys are all looking in the wrong place for american women… Honestly, we’re not all horrible cooks, and some of us still love to cook for our family and loved ones. I’m not yet 25, and a medical student, soon to be a doctor. I love having people over, and making feasts, for which I ususally have to be in the kitchen for several days. My mom and I cook huge meals for all family get-togethers. I also love cooking for my boyfriend (funny how I’ve turned to other cultures as well, only having dated 1 american man since college, and hoping not to have to date another), who loves my cooking.
My problem with american men, is actually almost identical. The men I’ve met are uncultured, won’t do their own laundry, and are afraid to even HAVE a kitchen in their house, let alone use it. They also don’t appreciate anything that I do for them. If I want to go out to dinner, it’s only to eat something that is different, that maybe I wouldn’t have even though of combining… (like snapper in a savory strawberry and cream sauce… actually delicious). I do ask for something in return, which is probably where some of the other comments come in. I don’t want any man to do my housework, what I want is to share it. 2 people working together can cut the work down by at least half the time and effort.
In modern america, the women are as powerful as men, and our place is no longer in the kitchen solely. As men and women are equally placed, I believe that we have equal demands. American women are no longer as subserviant as we were, but it is a product of our society. We are encouraged, pushed to be more, to strive for equality. Very few girls strive to be a homemaker, and those that do are almost ostracized.
If we want to live our lives, we must be able to be independent, because who wants to live off of the money of others? For example, if I want to go to an opera or to take up pottery or some other artform, and my boyfriend doesn’t want to, should I be using HIS hard-earned money just to do what I want? I don’t see that as fair. I must be able to have the money I need to do the things that I want to do. I couldn’t do that if I were attached solely to a man and doing nothing but serving him, cleaning for him, etc. We are taught that independance is as essential to life as air or water.
Anyways, that’s my 2 cents.
Cheers,
Marissa
November 23, 2006 at 1:37 pm
Marissa wrote:
“I think you guys are all looking in the wrong place for american women… ”
And where would be the right place? We’ve looked EVERYWHERE.
Marissa wrote:
“I love having people over, and making feasts, for which I ususally have to be in the kitchen for several days”
So how did you find the time to post this message on Thanksgiving Day?
Marissa wrote:
“only having dated 1 american man since college, and hoping not to have to date another”
And I’ve only dated one doctor in my life, and I will DEFINITELY never date another one. I found her to be arrogant and mean-spirited and she had a HUGE chip on her shoulder. She only became a doctor to show the world how smart she was; she didn’t have an ounce of compassion and didn’t care at all about helping people.
Marissa said:
“The men I’ve met are uncultured, won’t do their own laundry, and are afraid to even HAVE a kitchen in their house, let alone use it. They also don’t appreciate anything that I do for them.”
It sounds to me like you’re the one who’s looking in the wrong places. Where do you meet these guys? Bars? Frat parties? The internet?
Marissa said:
“In modern america, the women are as powerful as men”
Don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back. Women have become so powerful because they receive preferential treatment in college admissions, hiring, and promotions. Try playing on a level playing field some time.
Marissa said:
“should I be using HIS hard-earned money just to do what I want? I don’t see that as fair”
But if you got divorced, I bet you’d have no problem going to divorce court and robbing your ex-husband of everything he ever earned.
I do see it as fair for a husband to provide for his wife if she does her share of the housework, takes care of the kids, stays in shape, and provides her husband with a decent sex life. The members of a married couple should not be thinking “What’s mine in mine, and what’s yours is yours”. It’s all about SHARING.
Marissa wrote
“Anyways, that’s my 2 cents.”
And it was worth every penny.
November 23, 2006 at 8:27 pm
Hero, I was not being self-righteous or derogitory in any part of what I wrote, and I’m sorry that you saw it that way. Let me address the comments as they came…
The question about how I made time to write that on Thanksgiving is actually because I’m not at home right now, I’m outside of the country and away from family (in a tiny island in the Caribbean), as well as from other Americans that celebrate this holiday. I am going to a dinner, and bringing a simple dish, but only because on this island of 1500 people, it’s hard, if not impossible to find ingredients for any of the dishes that I like to cook that have not already spoiled, and I have no oven in which to cook a turkey anyways. In fact, I had to make the sour cream and butter for this dish from scratch because there is none here that is not spoiled, but there is milk… Who knew you could make those out of powdered milk?
Next comment:
“And I’ve only dated one doctor in my life, and I will DEFINITELY never date another one. I found her to be arrogant and mean-spirited and she had a HUGE chip on her shoulder. She only became a doctor to show the world how smart she was; she didn’t have an ounce of compassion and didn’t care at all about helping people.”
I’m sorry if I offend anyone with this comment, but I feel that almost all doctors, not just the female ones, are arrogant and mean-spirited, and although I’m not the leading expert in this, I do see the people with whom I am going to school right now. Doctors are used to playing GOD in their practice, with the power (at least in their minds) of life-or-death. To be completely honest, in a class of 75 students, I see maybe 3 people that I would want to attempt to cure me, or that I would want by my bedside as I was dying.
As a fact, the divorce rate for doctors is actually quite higher than the national average (higher still for psychiatrists), for exactly that reason. I personally don’t want a doctor within 10 miles of my personal life, which is why I’m not, nor do I forsee myself ever dating a doctor, so at least we can agree on one thing.
This discussion, though is not about my personal beliefs or who I am, since you do not know me other than what I have written here. If you would like to know, I became a doctor so that (once I pay off my loans) I can travel to Latin America or Africa with Doctors Without Borders or another organization to do relief work. I’m here because I love taking care of people, helping them feel better, and making them smile.
Next comment:
“It sounds to me like you’re the one who’s looking in the wrong places. Where do you meet these guys? Bars? Frat parties? The internet?”
Unlike the typical American female, I can’t stand bars, never been to a frat party, and I do not date people from the internet. A strong, confident woman (ESPECIALLY one that will be or is a doctor, mainly because it seems to bruise most egos, or so I’ve been told) is a complete turn off to the typical american male, and most males that I have known as friends and otherwise are looking for someone that will take over for their mother.
Believe me, I would LOVE to meet men that are not like that, so please, if I’m meeting men in the wrong place, where should I meet men that can take care of themselves? So far, I’ve only found foreign men that can do that, which seems to break my poor family’s collective hearts.
Next comment:
“Don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back. Women have become so powerful because they receive preferential treatment in college admissions, hiring, and promotions. Try playing on a level playing field some time.”
I was not saying anything about how great I personally was. And I cannot argue that we get preferential treatment in many of those areas. Those are throwbacks to a time when women who didn’t want to spend their lives serving men needed help doing so. And I will also not deny that the what caucasian male is arguably the most discriminated-against type of person, and I’m sorry if that has made you and a lot of other white caucasian american men bitter. I do hope for a day when everything is equal for men and women and all races, but that world is not here yet, and we need to make do with what we have.
Having said that I believe with 99.95% certainty that even with a comletely level playing field, that I still would have accomplished what I have. (Ok, maybe THAT was a slight pat on the back
)
Next comment:
“But if you got divorced, I bet you’d have no problem going to divorce court and robbing your ex-husband of everything he ever earned.
I do see it as fair for a husband to provide for his wife if she does her share of the housework, takes care of the kids, stays in shape, and provides her husband with a decent sex life. The members of a married couple should not be thinking “What’s mine in mine, and what’s yours is yours”. It’s all about SHARING.”
Don’t even know where to start with this one.
Granted, I have never personally gone through a divorce, but I’ve seen enough of them, and lived through 2 (My mother divorced twice, and really, there is no need to comment on that. Both men were physically and emotionally abusive because she was not the perfect woman you described). She took the house in one of the divorces, but only because she paid for it, as well as all of the repairs (it was a poorly made log cabin).
Do you really want to make judgements on a person that you have not even met, about what she would or would not do in the case of a possible divorce when technically she’s not even married yet? I’m sorry, but I’d like to consider a marriage before I start thinking about divorce.
So, speaking about marraige, I personally believe that both parts of a balanced relationship should have lives outside of the relationship to allow for personal growth, and that my husband should not ask me for money to do that, nor should I ask him the same (I do have expensive hobbies). I do, on the other hand, believe in sharing the money for the house etc, things that we do together, and even if he needs money once in a while for emergencies, etc.
Basically, what you seem to be describing as your ideal wife is a relationship where there is no sharing, but in fact, where the wife does 100% for everyone else and nothing for herself (because where would she find the time?). That’s a part of an argument that I cannot challenge, because it is a personal opinion, but what does she get out of it?
I entered this discussion for intellectual interest, and do not need to, nor desire to be cut down for anything that I say, which by the way is another reason why I don’t date American men.
Again, another 2 cents.
Cheers,
Marissa
November 23, 2006 at 9:10 pm
Marissa said:
“A strong, confident woman (ESPECIALLY one that will be or is a doctor, mainly because it seems to bruise most egos, or so I’ve been told) is a complete turn off to the typical american male, ”
Oh boy, I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard THAT line. Like RW_man said, what you’ve said is a very poor spin of a man’s decision to reject you. Also, it has been pointed out many times on this blog that it’s possible for a woman to be strong and still be feminine. We American males aren’t turned off by strong confident women, we’re turned off by women who act like MEN.
You said
“Having said that I believe with 99.95% certainty that even with a comletely level playing field, that I still would have accomplished what I have.”
Oh yeah? Well, I managed to get a Ph.D. in Math and an M.S. in Electrical Engineering and my playing field was more like a mine field.
You said
“My mother divorced twice, and really, there is no need to comment on that. Both men were physically and emotionally abusive because she was not the perfect woman you described”
Believe it or not, I have a great deal of sympathy for you and your mom. But don’t think that all men are like that. Besides, most divorces (about 70%) in the USA are so called “no-fault” divorces initiated by the woman.
You said:
“Basically, what you seem to be describing as your ideal wife is a relationship where there is no sharing, but in fact, where the wife does 100% for everyone else and nothing for herself”
That’s a typical feminazi tactic: putting words into her opponent’s mouth. Where did I say that the wife should do NOTHING for herself?
You said
“I entered this discussion for intellectual interest”
Why don’t you just go read a book? Or have a debate with your foreign boyfriend, who no doubt is intellectually superior to us obtuse, uncultured American men? Oh wait, your boyfriend probably agrees with everything you say. He’d better, right?
November 24, 2006 at 3:55 am
Hero you have done enough.
Your comment in 48. was excellent.
In particular this bit:
(and I would add)
Don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back. Women have become so (artificially) powerful because they receive preferential treatment in college admissions,(college programs),(scholarships), hiring, (marriage), (run ins with cops), (on television), (in the news), (in the medical treatment field, for eg: breast cancer “research”), and (job)promotions. Play on a level playing field some time where you are regcognized for your actions and not for your gender.
oh yeah and this bit bears repeating:
And I’ve only dated one doctor in my life, and I will DEFINITELY never date another one. I found her to be arrogant and mean-spirited and she had a HUGE chip on her shoulder(something to prove). She only became a doctor to show the world how smart she was(ego); she didn’t have an ounce of compassion and didn’t care at all about helping people. Women are ruthless and far more aggressive than men are when they let their emotions bring out the worst in them.
You AW need to understand this simple fact of life that men, such as me, observe everyday in college and at work and in my neighborhood: Stop being “smarter, better, faster” than the men you meet. To some extent, a woman self effaces and lives through her husband and children. Find a man you naturally look up to, respect and trust. Don’t waste time with boys. Men want power; women want love. Heterosexual union involves the exchange of the two: female power (in the worldly sense) for male love (his power expressed as otherworldly love.)
Sincerely, C
November 24, 2006 at 4:25 am
Hi Marissa,
Welcome to this site.. Although I do not agree with some of the things you’ve put out I respect the overall tone because I do not sense any real malice on your part.
I read your comments and will be putting up a significant post based on some of the ideas you are trying to put forth. You are more then welcome to debate on the intellectual exercise that you’ve mentioned as opposed to throwing bombs like other women have in the past.
Again welcome and Happy Thanksgiving..
GL
November 24, 2006 at 10:35 am
Thank you for the welcome, RW_man. I look forward to reading your point of view. There is no malice, real or imagined, on my part. I’m glad that at least you are willing to see that.
November 24, 2006 at 4:27 pm
Some foreign currency from a Ukrainian…
Whereas Marissa spoke about both SHARING outer-breadwinning work and housework.
* “I do see it as fair for a husband to provide for his wife if she does her share of the housework, takes care of the kids, stays in shape, and provides her husband with a decent sex life. The members of a married couple should not be thinking “What’s mine in mine, and what’s yours is yours”. It’s all about SHARING.”
Isn’t it a perfect example of “mine” and “yours”?
* “You AW need to understand this simple fact of life that men, such as me, observe everyday in college and at work and in my neighborhood: Stop being “smarter, better, faster” than the men you meet. To some extent, a woman self effaces and lives through her husband and children.”
These are two extreme attitudes; “the truth is somewhere in between”; and it takes indeed an anyworldly Human (actually, two) to reach and keep equilibrium. )
On the one hand, many women still feel the inertial impulse to outdo the times when “men in general” or “some bad guys” place(d) “women in general” or “some poor girls” inferior by default. (Here is where all quarrel comes from: generalizations and extreme examples.)
Re preferential treatment… In the Former Soviet Union, where law is Western and tradition somewhat Asiatic, it is a common saying that, “to deserve half of what the man gets, a woman must do twice more and better”. When you find a vacancy with regular responsibilities (documentation, negotiation,.. no polar expeditions), exactly up to your qualifications, and the only requirement you don’t meet is your sex, won’t you try to justify yourself by proving better? Sure it’s not business reasonable to set gender quotas, but how else you could eradicate prejudice that makes a boss take a decision on appointment or promotion expressly and exclusively grounded on the gender factor – “yes I know and feel sorry, but he’s a Man”?
The only thing we all actually need is an indeed level playground.
(Breast cancer as a preference? LOL! Aren’t there prostata programs?)
And in relationships (on the other hand), this “who’s better” attitude is non-sense… both ways. I appreciate you, you appreciate me. Nobody wants to be inferior. I would look up to you because of your personality and success (and all other things). You would admire me for the same (and all other things). I was engaged for 8 years to a fellow professional. We would not love each other as “a better expert than oneself” – it’s ridiculous. We took pride of the Beloved being a good expert. (Although we often started “complimenting contests”: “you are better!” – “no, you are!”)
Whoever wants to self-efface, let her. But why demand extinguishment of what have once been making her special?
* “As men and women are equally placed, I believe that we have equal demands.”
No. We have equal demands and should be equally placed. Not more – not less.
* “Men want power; women want love. Heterosexual union involves the exchange of the two: female power (in the worldly sense) for male love (his power expressed as otherworldly love.)”
Some inconsistency here. Maybe too otherworldly for a humble mundane creature like me…
Men want power – so they should be returned the power they are used to? Women want love – and not the power they are instead imposed on, eh?
I agree 100% that love is a power, but power as an expression of love? Love is a choice of one-and-only. Is there much personal preference whom to exert power over (especially if it requires “self-effacement”)? Love is care for other one’s happiness as he/she might see it; I DON’T mean a woman’s personal happiness in any opposition to her husband’s – why should he consider other person’s interests a threat to his own ones? Love is giving; power is taking. When power is seen in women’s hands, it’s labelled “control”, “egoism” and “violence”. Why is it different in men’s hands?
Love is live, give and – above all – LET LIVE. Making other one your controlled thing is mortification. Freudian things…
“We are taught that independance is as essential to life as air or water.”
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Peace to Men and Women! Let’s be PEOPLE above all…
Comrade Natalia
November 24, 2006 at 11:00 pm
Do Not tell me about the truth, you can not handle the truth as men see it, Natalia.
Power is not taking, that is a nonsense generalization/red herring; Further more power is different in men’s hands because of this simple fact that you have blatantly ignored: Men are not Women, wow what a revelation!
Women are known to abuse power whenever it benefits solely their own interests, where men use power to everyones advantage, men use power fairly to keep the world in order.
November 25, 2006 at 2:05 am
Very well stated, Natalia.
I was actually looking forward to a “foreign” point of view.
As for “C,” it seems to me that you are speaking generalizations as well. Are the men in power in Africa, committing genocide to their own people not abusing their power? What about Hitler? What about men that beat their wives because they did not cook a perfect meal? Are/were they using their power for good? Is/was that keeping the world in order?
There are exceptions to every rule, women that use their power for good, men that use theirs for bad, and of course vice versa. Please do not talk to me about generalities. Women may not be perfect, but neither are men.
The only difference between men and women is a tiny Y-chromosome, in fact one gene on that Y-chromosome is what makes a man’s apparatus versus a female’s. All other 22 1/2 sets of chromosomes are exactly the same.
Does everything that different really stem from a change that small? People are people, no matter where they’re from or whether they’re male or female. Is there that much of a power differential based on something so small as a few letters of genetic code?
November 26, 2006 at 1:56 am
Marissa you do not get it.
You obviously show no faith in men or any trust for them to tell you the truth, much less do you understand what the truth of men and women are.
Here is one huge diffference between men and women, Men have a sense of justice in what they do, women do not until they can figureit out for themselves.
BTW your argument does not make any sense please do not comment on here again.
From C.
November 27, 2006 at 11:14 am
You say my arguments make no sense, but you don’t explain it other than by saying exactly what you’ve said in other posts, C. That seems a bit circular to me. You also keep going back to that BS line “because women are not men.” I still don’t see the difference other that the obvious physical one.
You did state in your last post, though, that women CAN figure out justice for themselves. Does that mean that men are simply born with a sense of “justice” and women have to learn it? That shouldn’t be too hard. Are you talking home-town justice in the south with killing whoever makes you angry or doesn’t agree with you or slighted you in any way? Which justice are you talking about here? There are several definitions…
1 a : the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments b : JUDGE c : the administration of law; especially : the establishment or determination of rights according to the rules of law or equity
2 a : the quality of being just, impartial, or fair b (1) : the principle or ideal of just dealing or right action (2) : conformity to this principle or ideal : RIGHTEOUSNESS c : the quality of conforming to law
3 : conformity to truth, fact, or reason : CORRECTNESS
There are men AND women that are just, righteous, and correct, and those that are not so. There are men AND women that know how to rule, to deal with power, and there are those that do not.
If you really look at it, you say that a woman cannot rule, cannot deal with power, and does not know the meaning of justice. Isn’t that just what a stay-at-home woman is doing with the family? She has control over the house, over how pleasant or unpleasant it is, over whether the children are moral, clean, and “just.” And who teaches male children to be who they are? Please don’t tell me the father, because there are many children that grow up in abusive or single-mother households, and they turn out perfectly normal. The mother has just as much power in that respect as the father, and sometimes more. She can turn children against their father if she so desires.
A woman with a good house-hold is just as powerful as any manager or ruler, if not more so. They only rule the present. A mother controls the future.
So if you’re saying that a woman can’t rule, but at the same time saying that she is the only one that can rule a family, I’m not sure I understand your logic there. Please explain your argument in your next post and don’t just write it off as “because I says so.”
BTW, if you want me off, go ahead and petition the moderator, but I will not tuck my tail and go meekly away just because you claim that I make no sense. I actually find this thread somewhat amusing.
Cheers,
Marissa
November 27, 2006 at 2:09 pm
Suppose there are some more people than C here.
The men (and women) who find it possible and useful when a woman lives through her family, husband and children, without discarding her personality, but with investing it for the common benefit.
The women (and men) who regard whosever power not as competition but as contribution (like we Russian or Ukrainian women do).
The people who choose roles not by their ambition or other one’s coercion, not by old or new social fashion, not by anybody’s prejudice, not by insecurity or co-dependency, but by the call of their own hearts and with a bit of conscious thinking.
May it become the paragon of Kinder-Ku:chen-Kirche or a team of rocket scientists, - all is well if it goes well for these particular people together. What is the sense of “ostracizing” housewives (didn’t know the things have gone as far in the US!) – to make another poor professional instead of a good housewife? And why condemn professionals – if it can reduce a talent to the broom (whereas men prove themselves that it IS possible to balance work with family)? There is a shoe for every foot or vice versa.
With all the best, Natalia
November 27, 2006 at 2:22 pm
“She can turn children against their father if she so desires” - Marissa, you’ll be Lynched now! ))
November 27, 2006 at 7:27 pm
Natalia, I didn’t mean to say that women that want to become housewives here in the states are ostracized. The point is, I guess, that it is a choice now, not a necessity, and as you say, there is no reason to force a woman into the workforce if she would rather stay at home with the kids and vice versa. Those women are honored, and sometimes even envied.
Honestly, my family is full of strong, successful women with very happy familys and great family lives because of loving, giving, wonderful men that support the growth of both the woman and the children, allowing them to be what they want, helping with the housework and raising of the children, etc. Maybe that’s where a lot of what I believe (and my incredulity in what some others believe on this forum) come from.
And, wonderlander, I know that that was a dangerous thing to say, but I meant it only as a power that a man unknowingly gives to his wife, and a power that most women choose not to abuse. I would never even dream of turning my children against my husband, because there goes 1/2 of the team. I meant it only as a discussion point and a hypothetical situation.
November 27, 2006 at 7:35 pm
Oh, and Natalia, I agree. Most people don’t see power as a competition between the sexes here in the US. There are many men that are willing to share power with women or other men at home or at work, and they see no problem with it.
I’m not sure where some of these comments are coming from here, but I have seen them before. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, I guess.
I personally believe that no type of power should belong in one person’s hands, but that true power comes from a contribution of a team of people working together, hence no competition and less abuse potential. But, I also am more european in my thinking that most american women.
Seriously thinking of moving over to Europe. 
November 27, 2006 at 9:23 pm
I disagree with your understanding Marissa and your assessment. Perhaps YOU are the exception to the rule. I’ve seen and witnessed the constant abuse women in North America put up with that choose to be housewives. They are seen as weak and stupid by the social norms. Perhaps I am seeing more than you intend, but the statistics show you are incorrect. RW Man made mention in a prior post of the media’s delight of the marriage rate in the USA. There are many reasons for this.
Canajun
November 27, 2006 at 10:08 pm
Canajun, it may be the area that I come from… One of America’s bible belts. Many many women are housewives, and those of the housewives that do decide to work do Mary Kay or Avon or some other sort of work out of the home. I guess we’re all talking in generalities, but how many people really fit into generalities?
November 28, 2006 at 12:13 am
Marissa;
As you may be able to gather from this site and the many, many others that are referenced, generalities are the words of the liberals. Speaking for myself and the area of America in which I live, this is a roller coaster that cannot stop by itself.
If your area of the country is that different then I applaud you and all the women you know that share that feeling. It isn’t common in the rest of the entire continent. Canada included. Please research further than your own little area. It’s everywhere. As I said, I see and experience it every day.
Canajun
November 28, 2006 at 7:10 pm
I have lived in 6 areas in as many states, and I see the same attitude everywhere, wherever the economy can support a woman that wants to stay at home with the family. I’ve heard the same from my Canadian friends, as well. Maybe women in the US are seeing Natalia’s point, that some women are just not cut out to be professionals, and others (like me
) not cut out to be housewives.
November 28, 2006 at 7:55 pm
It seems obvious the bubble in which you live has no portholes. Your lies are unfounded and an insult to all those you come in contact with.
The elitist and feminist attitude that your mind has created is all fiction. Good luck when reality finally meets you when your old age and fountain of unfaith comes to it’s conclusion.
My sympathies to you and empathy for lack of vision.
Canajun
November 28, 2006 at 8:01 pm
Ok, so you’re not a housewife type. What are your plans for a family then? Do you plan on becoming the doctor that works 12-15 hours a day coming home to a “partner” that plays the housewife role? Or are you content in having no children with your husband-to-be, becoming MoNKs (Marrried with No Kids)? Or if you have children and both of you work full time jobs, what will happen to the kids? Entrust them with family members or with daycare strangers?
And since you’re thinking of living in Europe, what do you think the chances are of finding a husband that plays the house-husband role?
November 28, 2006 at 11:02 pm
Forgive my lashing out RW Man. I can only stand so much stupidity as I see it out of Marissa. She seems to have no earthly idea of what she speaks. It’s in the papers all over this country and Canada of the issues brought out in your site.
I perhaps have been duped by her feminist opinion, but felt the need that others not be swayed by her lies or closed mind. Okay, I’m done. Thanks.
Canajun
November 30, 2006 at 4:47 am
Marissa,
The term “Housewife” in the US is primarily used as a derogatory term and it is meant to SPIN the identity of Women away from being a mother and wife.
When I read that you are not cut out to be a housewife.. what I immediately think is that you are not cut out to be a good mother or wife.
That is totally your call since you want to focus on your profession.. No problem with that.. just make sure you have some honesty about your intent and don’t give me the “I can have it all” mentality.
December 1, 2006 at 12:14 am
But some women, very happy women, do have it all. There is no reason that (once the loans are paid off) I cannot work part-time or evenings, switching with my husband until the children are in school, at which time I can go back to working a regular job to fund their education. Many physicians, because the salary is so nice, choose to work only part-time so that they can have the families that they’ve always dreamed of.
Granted, there are always emergencies, and it does require a supportive relationship, but just because a woman wants more for myself than staying at home 24/7 does not implicitly mean that she’s not “cut out” to be a good mother. I’ve seen it done, and it can work.
As for the “housewife” comment, I will agree that it is not always uttered with the utmost respect. What I will not agree with (either with you or with C) is that it is meant to “SPIN” women away from staying at home with their families, and that housewives are purely seen as unworthy of any respect.
What I meant by the honor and envy comment a few posts ago is that there are many professional women that look back on their lives, look at their neighbors, or other family members and ask themselves if they would have been happier staying at home. Some even give up their carreers for that.
While your Jane Doe fresh out of high school or college generally wants to stay as far away from the epithet “housewife” as possible (maybe because she wants to snag that “Mrs.” degree), a more mature woman may accept that as her true calling, and may be very happy with that decision.
December 1, 2006 at 12:24 am
And one more question… why is there no question about whether a male doctor or other man that has many demands on his life is “cut out” to be a good father?
December 1, 2006 at 6:16 am
Marissa,
If a woman decides to jump into a profession later in life when the kids are older or have moved out then I would see that as being a successful choice as well. Not when you are dealing with infants, toddlers and young children. This is the best way for her to achieve balance and the challenge of gaining all the womanly roles in her life that she can without hurting her kids, husband or herself.
I’ve spent some time writing up 2 posts about the Ill’s of Feminism on Women and you seem to still not get it.. Your language still suggests that you are trying to promote the old Socialist and Marxist ideology of “Equality” which in turn really ends up robbing you women for denying the special traits that you inherently have. i.e . Motherhood..
Attitude is everything.. and unfortunately I believe that you are so indoctrinated with Feminist Dogma that you don’t even truly realize it and indeed your entire frame of reference and identity is slanted this way.
This is the classic trap that most feminist get into and then they don’t discover the truth until it’s too late and they have worn out their youthful years on ego instead of capitalizing on this natural advantage to find a high value and life long partner to build a stable family with.
Your question about Men reminds me of one of the classic complaints of why Men earn more money in general then Women that Feminist use. Well the answer is simple.
Men make more money on average because they are willing to take more RISKS in the workplace to get ahead. No Risk No Reward. And this is the reason why Men are more suitable in general to be the primary bread winners while the wife can concentrate more on building the family and home life.
She obviously can still work and that is not an issue.. what is at issue is the mentality that you and all Feminist have towards competition with your partner. And this will never give you ALL the things you say you can have. You will fail with that attitude I promise you.. Or at the very least you will be with a feminized Man who you neither respect or makes you happy.
However I do give you credit for recognizing how the word “Housewife” is used as a derogatory term that is meant to shame women away from concentrating on their motherly and home roles. At least your mind is open to that reality.. I hope it opens some more..
GL
December 1, 2006 at 11:13 am
An interesting discussion, dear Host, I feel I should explore this topic in my own “salon” soonest… and here a couple of thoughts…
If you were the boss, whom would you prefer, - an older woman with education forgotten, work experience absent or obsolent, but family responsibilities already charged? Or a variety of young women (or men!) with to-date education gained in the years of highest learning capacity, with fresher mind, energy and flexibility, and less salary requirements?
And if you were the girl, how would you sustain yourself till you meet a man who would agree to become your provider AND whom you would love? Take account that “providers” are choosy, and it costs quite a lot to stand to contemporary Bridal Standards of beauty et al.
The happy medium for a have-it-all Russian girl is learning when it learns, working when it works, and if she still likes her trade, switching to episodic short-time or outwork assignments in the child’s early years (with her parents traditionally there for helping with grandchildren), and then quickly catching up with the profession / job where she’s already made herself a reputable background before the maternity leave. Or maybe choose some other and/or part-time occupation to keep her mind alive, future ensure against marital emergencies, and pockets full of “hobby money”.
Sincerely,
Comrade Natalia
December 1, 2006 at 2:22 pm
http://russianwomenspeak.wordpress.com/2006/12/01/happy-husband-children-and-career-how-can-russian-wife-manage-work-and-family/
…Russian women are famous as resourceful, enduring, energetic and dependable.
In the Soviet and early transition economies, they carried their families (and the society) on their shoulders, homemaking AND breadwinning, while most their men lay mazed with Communist limits and market challenges. New opportunities didn’t add accountability to Russian men… to women, they did.
So I have millions of witnesses, beginning with my own dear Mama (soon a Professor with Ukraine’s main University, adored by students far beyond her classes; both her ex-husbands, a scholar and a businessman, _literally_ weeped in the divorce procedure or after), that women CAN pursue profession and be good wives and mothers.
The issue is not only how, but why MAY they WANT to “have it all”?
99,99% Russian women cherish the dream to have the responsibilities of a Loving Wife and Mother as their only job, to find the Perfect Husband and relax!
…
December 1, 2006 at 3:20 pm
I certainly agree with GL that attitude is everything. Most American women want it all and want it NOW. Russian women want a safe and happy family FIRST. Only when the family unit is stable and the children are secure and have a sense of purpose and identity do these women pursue loftier careers or advancement in their jobs. Of course there will be exceptions, a small number of American women have successful careers but at what expense? A dysfunctional family unit where the kids have the IQ of a slug or a PAM for a husband? I wonder how many of these types are truly happy and how many of their husbands and children are truly happy? I would say a very small few. You think Oprah is truly happy? I don’t.
December 1, 2006 at 6:10 pm
Since you said that there are some women who “have it all” are very happy. That is, the modern feministic society is telling women that they are all supposed to be ‘superwoman’, and ‘have it all’ – thrilling sex life, man of your dreams, gorgeous children, slim enviable physique and above all a glittering career, or at least, let’s say a good job of which you can be proud. They are being perceived as “happy” and “success” on its surface by the whole society. When you take a very hard and deep look at those women, are they really happy way deep inside in their own soul? Are they being true to themselves? What happen to their own soul or “true self”?
Or… are they really trying to achieve this idealistic idea of “have it all” in order impress other people? It is because they have absolutly no sense of identity and true self. As a result, they become so insecure and fearful about themselves. Because of this, they try to impress other people by following the popular culture, society and believe all of the feminist BS. How many women end up living in misery and feeling very deep hurt at their own soul? Because of this pain, how many women chose to take drugs, anti-depression pills, alcohol or commit violence and crimes to cover up their pain and fear very deep in their own soul?
I really don’t like to sh