There is an age old stereotype that says that a Man should not get seriously involved with a Woman who already has children.
Although this is prevalent in both the US and Russia.. as with most things between these two countries we are dealing with VERY different things.
In the US both Men and Women will evaluate romantic partners along with the perceived “liabilities” that each one brings to the table from past relationships. The issue of children is first and foremost in both partners mind as it rightfully should be.
In the US and in the West the “impact” that a Woman’s children has on a relationship can range from significant to huge. This is primarily because there are far greater levels of expectation for the new partners to also take on added responsibilities for these children.
But in Russia it’s a completely different issue..
The level of responsibility taken on by Russian Women is an order of magnitude greater then it is with Women in the West.
Or in other words..
The Father’s don’t usually do squat to take care of their kids in comparison to their Mothers.
Nor are the Father’s really expected to..
Now please don’t read into this the wrong way. I’m NOT advocating that Men should be detached from the raising of children.. Quite frankly Men have much to gain by doing everything they can to play their natural role as strong and loving fathers.
However what I am reporting to you is that having a relationship with a Russian Woman with children is typically a whole different ballgame then what you’d probably expect.
It’s a ballgame with a number of distinct advantages as well. Advantages such as…
MATURITY
For starters you are dealing with a woman who totally understands what real responsibility in life is all about and what daily routines are needed to maintain it. What this means for you as a Man is that you have a Woman who FULLY knows what it means to be a traditional and well adjusted wife. This is a great way to go for many Men who choose Russian Women with children because there is a much shorter adjustment period in understanding each other.
On her part no confusion or ambiguity exists as far as traditional gender roles are concerned. There is simply a Woman who is more then ready to be your loving wife as long as you can fully support her role as a loving mother.
GRATITUDE
This is something that I’ve talked about previously but it’s worth bringing up again in this context.
High levels of mutual loving Gratitude towards each other is a very special feeling. It’s real, lasting and being on the receiving end of this type of love just completely elevates you as a Man. I personally believe that the number one indicator of success in any relationship between Men and Women is dependent on the level of gratitude they have towards each other.
If Gratitude exists then all other potential relationship issues can be dealt with in a smooth and orderly fashion. This is because the very nature of Gratitude is driven by the understanding that both of you understand how lucky you are in having each other. And in comparison to this.. all other concerns may seem trivial.. and they should be.
The mere fact that you Men are reading this indicates that you are intimately aware of how difficult it is to find a real and loving spouse in today’s world.
So guess what?
The exact same situation exists with these women especially if they’re divorced with children and have extremely limited options in this harsh society for a 2nd marriage. In many ways you are both in the same boat and I’m sure you will appreciate this fact when you start making sincere and warm overtures towards each other.
COMMUNICATION
In the past I’ve talked about the natural evolutionary desires that Older Men have towards Younger Women. These physical desires are real and they will always be around. However there is another desire that is just as real and perhaps even more relevant.
And that is the desire to be “Understood”.
(Now keep in mind that when I talk about being “Understood” I am not just talking about having a great conversation. I’m also talking about the Emotional, Physical, and Sexual Communication side of this as well. The type of communication that exists through a Woman’s Loving Touch. The magic of having her sitting with you in the back of a taxi and instinctively putting her head against your chest.. or the magic that occurs when she comes up behind you while you are working and starts to caress your shoulders.)
If Understanding exists between 2 people then true appreciation naturally follows. If you are a Man who has been through a divorce and you also have children then your life is fundamentally different from that of a younger Man who has yet to be married. The emotional and physical requirements you have are inherently more advanced and a significantly younger woman will certainly not “understand” this immediately and it may take a long time for her to get up to speed.
But make sure you keep this in mind if you decide to go this route with a younger woman.
There are NO Guarantee that this adjustment on her part will happen.
When you deal with a Woman who more closely matches your maturity because of her own status as a mother you will have a much higher likelyhood of emotional and physical compatibility from the start. It is something that you will immediately sense with her or not.. And knowing this right away is a very good thing.
INTENT
In the past when I was was chasing women and playing my “game” I always had a little voice in the back of my head that was asking..
“How do you know she really likes you… if you are the only one doing the pursuing?”
Unfortunately at that time the “game of pursuit” was the priority.. so I neither had the time nor the inclination to really pay attention to this bigger picture. This is because anytime you play this game it’s only about the “image” you are showing off to the girl as opposed to the real man she can really see you as.
I’ve come to understand that finding a Woman’s real intentions is simply evaluated by how much she is willing to “carry the football” while you are dating and getting to know each other. Is she asking the right questions of you? Is she projecting positive energy towards you? Is she enthusiastic when she’s with you? Does she return your phone calls? Does she show concern?
Or in other words.. Is she willing to also carry the load and also take co-ownership over the courtship that you are supposed to be SHARING?
When you are dealing with Russian Mothers you are dealing with women who are NOT into any games. They see this for the shallow activity that it is because this society is filled with guys who are out looking for an easy time without commitment. Instead you are dealing with a Woman who has serious intent and she will readily show it to you without hesitation if you are the right man who’s willing to show it to her as well.
CHILDREN
If you’ve read my earlier post about what is a Genuine Russian Woman you will understand that to see a Russian Mother in action is to behold something truly wonderful. If you want to know what level of patience and love a Russian Woman is capable of for you as a Man then all you need to do is to watch her around her children.
There are times I swore I could’ve fallen in love with a number of Russian Women on the spot just by watching the way they lovingly interacted with their children.. and other children as well.
Guys the results of this attention are truly astounding.
The vast majority of children that I have seen under their mother’s wing are completely content and happy. If a child got out of line and needed to be corrected then you would usually see their mother just quietly say something to them.. and this was all that was required. It’s was like an invisible magic wand casting a calming spell on their young.
In any case..
If and when you are ready to come to Russia to pursue a relationship I would seriously evaluate what I’ve said here with this post. I hope that you are able to use this to clear away the ambiguity that will always exist when you are searching for a woman to build your life with.
And obviously the less ambiguity you have about your future while you are here the better.
Russia can be a very perplexing place and finding real intent in a limited amount of time that you can actually bank on is a very valuable commodity.
If we were to use this intent as a measure of a Woman’s real value towards you..
Then you will find that Russian Mother’s are indeed quite wealthy beyond compare..
November 14, 2006 at 11:32 am
Oh man I could have written this myself! I was thinking about writing something along these lines and giving it to you. You beat me to it.
If you are willing to accept responsibility for a child, this is the absolute perfect way to go. For me, I am in my early 40s (never married, no kids), my fiancé just turned 27 and has a 1 year 8 month old child from her previous marriage.
Her ex is out of the picture. He signed over the custody and visa documents no questions asked.
Was I hesitant in the beginning? You bet, in fact I walked on the relationship twice – both times on her part there were no hysterics, simply “It’s ok, I understand, and I only want to be with someone who is very sure”. No joke, that’s what she said and she meant it.
I was due to fly out of Russia the next day. I could have left and never looked back and she knew it. She also knew that I had a lot to offer her and her daughter in terms of a life style – a way of life she most assuredly would never know if I left in terms of money and material possessions (dare I say ‘material crap no one really needs’).
Not that these are not important, but they are not the most important. If you can and are willing to support her and the child(ren) you are a king.
Throw out everything you think you know about divorced women and children – it applies in the states it DOES NOT apply in Russia.
There are zero head games, and rather intense pragmatism in our relationship. Which suits me fine – there is more romantic love (real love) than I have ever experienced to go with it.
Imagine that balance men – pragmatic about daily life and you get support at home with romance. I defy you to find that in the states.
November 14, 2006 at 4:41 pm
I have seen mother’s here in the U.S. many a time at the park or the mall and even the grocery store and to see a mother here discipline thier children exist with screaming or yelling and I have even seen a few be spanked on the spot. What happened to the U.S. the time of grandma and grandpa or mom and dad. Love and Respect. It seems the U.S. is going backwards as far as family is concerned.
November 14, 2006 at 5:21 pm
Hi Rule62,
Well buddy you are partially responsible for this post since your story was one of the ones that was on my mind when I compared it to the other ones that I’ve seen here and decided to finally write about it.
By the way your story is incredible.. the courage and fortitude that your finance showed really says a great deal about her character and strength. And this is something that I’ve seen a great deal of over here. Keep posting man!
November 15, 2006 at 12:04 am
Great post!! Everything that was stated is so true. A true Russian lady plays no head games and will truly devote herself to you and the family. I am witness to this simple but effective miracle every day.
November 15, 2006 at 11:38 am
Kudos! One couldn’t have written best ))
And some more highlights…
1. Yes Responsibility and Faith, as she has her children’s good at stake. She’ll be serious like hex deciding if you are going to be a good Head of Family, a Father and a Husband, – and if she says “Yes” it means she IS to you, for you and with you.
2. Experience, to help you raise your own children or your future together’s children, if any.
3. And Children – ready-made, the toughest time behind. Many men think kids as Little Personalities already visible and understandable, – to teach, to play with, to communicate. The early years when it is all about diapers and uninterpretable screams feel scary to many Daddies. Now they get the stake without doing the butcher work, and still can cook it as you see fit!
You Divorced Mothers’ Angel. )
Sincerely,
Comrade Natalia
November 15, 2006 at 11:39 am
…as they see fit [edited]
November 15, 2006 at 11:43 am
…as _they_ see fit [edited]
November 15, 2006 at 11:47 am
_steak_ [edited]
sorryy…
November 15, 2006 at 12:58 pm
With this in mind the issue may then become if she can bring her child with her to America. The attachment I understand but the issues involving the ex-husband from what I’ve read can be terrible.
A very good ladyfriend of mine in Moscow told me of many such cases and now it is not uncommon for the Father’s to only sign the papers if money is promised. Like a bribe to sell their child.
Is this a major concern or an isolated incident? From my own experience it seems to be more than just idle gossip or nothing to be concerned of.
Canajun
November 15, 2006 at 2:34 pm
My wife’s ex-husband did exactly that: Sell his daughter for money. He relinquished all parental rights to her for an undisclosed sum. Which really worked out better for my wife and her daughter since he had absolutely no say in both of them going to the States for a better life. (He never though she would find someone to love her and her daughter)
I’m afraid that this is not an isolated case as I hear (from my wife) that more and more fathers are practicing this pathetic behavior.
November 15, 2006 at 3:53 pm
I cannot understand why any man, anywhere would do something like that Kzarz. Unless that is, he has no concern whatsoever for the welfare of his child, who probably as an adult would want nothing to do with him.
Taras
November 15, 2006 at 6:26 pm
My wife said that when her daughter was born, he (ex-husband) fufilled his function as a husband and had no reason to care for his child. He did not want to be a father so he gave up all his rights as a parent. A real winner, this guy.
November 15, 2006 at 7:33 pm
Lucky for him, he didn’t fullfill his function as husband in the U.S.! He’d be fullfilling other functions too. I understand why men do not want to be fathers, but if he didn’t want to be a father, he should have kept his pants zipped.
Taras
November 15, 2006 at 9:43 pm
RW,
Have you ever written a comprehensive post on HOW to go about landing a Russian lady from start to finish? I know you say, “Fly on over here.” Then what? Fly where? A big city, a small one? Which? A buddy and I speak Russian fluently, and we have talked about going to Russia to find a cool Russian lady to marry. I wouldn’t know where to start besides wandering around St. Petersburg night clubs at night, let alone all the legal manuevering and expected costs.
November 15, 2006 at 11:31 pm
That’s a really touching story Rw_Man and Rule62. These women really do love their children more than anything in the world, even to the point where they selflessly give up personal gratification (temp. boyfriends etc) for the welfare of them. It’s so completely different here, and I’m glad there are some places that still practice traditional “love”. It’s kinda hard battling against everything I’ve been taught though; You don’t need a man! You can do fine without one, forget em! Get a career and a life together before you share it with someone! I personally think it’s better to marry someone and create a life TOGETHER than just attempt it too late in the game.
November 16, 2006 at 2:27 am
Sadly building a life together is no longer the motive many people have to get married anymore Kara. That should be what marriage is all about, but for all too many people it’s all about personal gain.
Taras
November 16, 2006 at 8:01 am
Stariy Soldat,
(kudos for your humor!!! a melting nickname)
try this by a Russian woman concerned about competent dating for international marriage:
http://russianwomenspeak.wordpress.com/2006/11/01/finding-russian-ukrainian-wife-travel-agency-or-online-dating-advantages-disadvantages-mistakes-success-tips-advice/
A post on work environment and its advantages would follow soon.
Best regards,
Comrade Natalia
November 16, 2006 at 5:31 pm
Thanks Natalia. i’ll take a look at your blog.
I’m not the old at 30. I guess I should be прежний soldat.
January 9, 2007 at 8:05 pm
Ctari Soldat,
Regarding meeting women in Russia – one thing that might be useful to know, is that women do not generally go ‘out’ alone (i.e. to a club, bar, restaurant), at least in the evening.
It is not even common for them to go with another female friend. There is usually one or more guys with them. They will often ‘arrange’ a male friend to accompany (or deliver) them to the destination at the very least. It is not considered particularly safe for girls to to out at night alone. It is viewed as a welcome sign for kerb crawlers in cars and is almost always avoided.
Meeting single women in bars etc. is possible, but they will most likely be with their brothers, friends (or boyfriends!) at the time, and if not, then they will most likely be collected by them later.
As an example: I now always accompany my wife’s female friends to/from a train/bus or drive them home in the evening after visiting, partly because it is a normal social gesture which they expect, and partly because of the issues mentioned above. This expectation is fairly common among Russian women.
I do extend exactly the same service to her local friends, which they do find surprising, but most have got used to the idea
I don’t want to exaggerate this issue too much – it is just what I understand of the culture there and is perhaps useful to know.
Maybe one of our Russian readers can expand on this more accurately.
January 9, 2007 at 9:39 pm
Well said. There exists a strong prejudice that a girl going out alone, or even eating out alone, is at danger, physically, and at least to her reputation.
Things change in big cities, where you can rely on decent taxi service, and where oldie bans are fading away (however, many men cling to them, thinking “liberal” for fun, “canaries” for marriage, and so do many women, to ensure their respect).
Which reduces chances… not totally, but substantially.
Sinc., N.
March 19, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Thanks for this article. I have been dating a beautiful Russian single mother for the past few months. The experience is nothing like I expected, and I have been very pleasantly surprised. She is 34 (divorced, father is across the country), and I’m 26. I have yet to meet her 11 year old daughter, and am pretty nervous about the situation. But more so, I am really unsure about the question “is she really interested in me?”. We live in different cities, and only get to see each other 1-2 times a month. Is it best ti just outright ask her about her thoughts on the relationship? I know that against typical north america girls, this would be a no no and usually turn them off. Oh man, I think I’m falling in love with her
March 19, 2007 at 4:36 pm
Hi zeebo,
Thanks for joining us. Given what you are telling me a 34 year old divorced mother in Russia is going to be very serious in a good way towards you. If you have feelings for her then I would just totally go for it all the way.
Just do me a favor and keep us posted with your progress
Oh and tell your friends too
Cheers GL
March 20, 2007 at 8:19 am
Hallo from Ukraine. ) I think if she is going to introduce you to her daughter, it means making you a significant part of her life. You are luckier than most of your fellow countrymen who have to travel overseas – God, meeting twice a month for several days together is a great opportunity to learn each other, develop serious feelings and sort them out, provided that your relationship lasts long enough!
Speaking about national mentalities, it is not like Russian women to maintain relationships that don’t have prospects. So, it would be a great step to tell her what she means to you. True, she can be a bit scared with the necessity to make dramatic decisions in her long-settled life (especially that she cares most for the comfort of her child’s heart as well as life path), – just make sure you are not pressing her for anything. But again, letting you get along with her daughter is a very good sign!
Best wishes,
Comrade Natalia
March 20, 2007 at 3:04 pm
I remember a profile on anastasiaweb.com of a lady who said that a man would have to win her daughter’s approval before he won the mother’s heart.
But I’m not worried, because I have an 8-year-old niece who just loves me to death
.
April 14, 2008 at 8:53 am
I have a question, and hope that this adds light to the conversation. As a Western girl dating a Russian man, there have definitely been cultural mis communications. I am working everyday to try to understand the complexity that is Russian culture. I have a question, though…
Just how dependent are a Russian mother and her son on one another?
Her and her sister always tell me how irresponsible Russian men are, yet I see them baby their grown sons. My man, for example, has never booked his own plane tickets before and for the first time has his own credit card and bank account…at the age of 26. His mother will also try to make decisions for him, such as which school to apply to and what loans to take. Goodness, I love him, but is this normal? He is her world, and it is a very tender relationship. But is a normal part of Russian culture? And if so, is this benefitting young Russian men today? (Btw, if you can’t tell, the Western values of indepedence have been pounded in my head growing up…it is only recently that I am learning to understand the futility of this idea, and it is a long, difficult process).
RW, please do not interpret this is me trying to be argumentative. The concern and passion my mother in law has for her son is commendable, and it makes my blood boil to think about how she was abandoned by her boyfriend to raise a son alone. I am simply trying to be neutral, and since this is a website on Russian culture, I thought these questions would add some insightful dialogue.
A father is needed in the family because they are better able to stand back and let their children learn the more difficult lessons in life, as well as providing a discipling force in the family. Both parents are needed, pure and simple, since they both play essential roles. Is this part of the reason that Russian women will allow their husbands to have mistresses, ect?
It is difficult for me to accept this is not negatively affecting a generation of men in Russia. Can you please further explain? How do young men in Russia view themselves?
April 14, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Oh dear… You’ve punished me for blogging slowly. )
You hit one of core reasons to the “disqualification” of Russian men as husbands. The nation’s history has assaulted manliness with several scooping forces. And fellow women have been emasculating it with enveloping greenhouse heat.
It’s like a self-fulfilling prophecy: men are irresponsible > should be treated as such > and what upbringing results?
This attitude dates back to Russian tales. Their male characters can’t take a step without help, usually by female characters – from old “Gramma figure” witches to avian or reptile princesses eager to marry the sudden encounter who’s justified their being women.
Ah, magic fish is also female. )
Who are Russian folk archetypes first to remember? Ivan the Fool; Vassilissa the Wise. Although from different tales, a modern joke gets them married. “Now her last name is Vassilissa the Fool.”
And when Aunt Natalia undersleeps, she starts telling horror tales of contemporary life. )
A zealous Russian Momma can “spoonfeed” a son till he grows grey hair.
If hers is a daughter, – it goes a bit easier: girls should be prepared to become responsible mothers themselves. (With little brothers, they almost are.) When they are handed over to husbands or have their own children, they are deemed adult enough to walk without the “baby-jumper”.
Nevertheless there is no attorney for the prosecution like a Mother in Law to her daughter’s mate evidently doing wrong… i.e., towards an offender to her Flesh and Blood she’s dedicated Everything To.
But a Son is a Man, and this germinates a Freudian-style controversy.
Some Russian husbands end breaking their vows when they become fathers, for half-realized jealousy of the new-made mother’s attention turned to the new-made VIP #1 (which could be a daughter, too, but since we trace what the little boys are made of…)
Whatever reason of her loneliness, a woman is driven to transfer all her unfulfilled emotions upon the Only Man remaining. (Was the sister treated comparably?)
Then he becomes her “light in the window”, her closest friend and her biggest debtor. It is so lofty – and so burdensome – to both. But their symbiosis is too close. Co-dependency: ever heard the term?
Now comes Another Woman to take him ready-made! She is never good enough to be trusted with Proper Care of the dear boy.
Oops, English does not discern in-laws by sex and relation. In Russian folklore, the tyoscha (the wife’s mother) is the favorite comical vile, to be humbled in the end. The svekrov’ (the husband’s mother) rhymes with “seeping blood” and doesn’t inspire giggles.
Back to the old-time Russia… Nikolay Nekrasov, that classical poet most quoted for those houses still burning and burning, and horses still galloping on for the woman to handle – also wrote on the “three hard lots of destiny” in his land of serfdom unfathomable from Europe:
“to be wed to a slave, to mother a slave son, to obey to a slave unto death.” But not only to him.
Living in extended families is a common Russian variant of norm, since harsh climate and poverty had held generations together. And the tacit ruler of this family has been the Eldest Woman.
***
It’s awfully difficult to “cut the navel cord” when a mother holds to it. Not all children even realize if, what, and how they should do… should carry out.
Your transmarine situation is a blessing. Objective barriers and Russian reverence for Studies can make partition easier.
Young men’s attitudes…
The son’s own feelings got lost in your description of the mother’s lead – but what are you registering at the background of your mind? Sonly behaviour is a known test for a man’s future treatment of his wife.
Aside from that, “they all” deem themselves mature and self-sufficient. But few refuse benevolently accepting the care they are granted.
Today’s boys don’t want to save a Sleeping Beauty, they play with Lara Croft.
May he stand firmly on his own feet on alien turf as the Man of the Family. May this not justify your nursing him.
P.S. They start pondering over life ca. 27.)
Sincerely, N.
June 1, 2008 at 12:42 pm
[...] Checkpoint. How much co-dependency is there between her and her relatives? [...]