April 10, 2008
The Brits are Getting It
Posted by rw_man under American Men, Background, Beauty & Sexiness, Culture & Beliefs, Feminism, General, Identity, International Men, Mojo, Russian Women, Why Russian Women?I was totally grinning when I read this article today.
I hope you will too..
To Russia for Love
War and alcoholism have taken their toll on Russia’s male population, and women are turning their gaze to the eligible bachelors of the UK, finds Richard Spillett
Tuesday April 8th 2008
Are British men on the run from Britain’s pint-downing, liberated women?
While in the realm of political rhetoric Britain and Russia seem to be renewing old rivalries, relations on the ground have never been better. The global market is finally coming to Moscow, and when it comes to husbands, Russian women have started buying British.
Sitting with Yorkshireman Jonathan and his newly-wedded Muscovite wife, Alexandra, I begin to understand why. Over borscht and fish and chips, she explains: “In Britain, all the blokes are gorgeous and the girls are ugly. Here all the women are beautiful and the men are useless.” Though I’m not sure it is quite that straightforward, there may be an element of truth in it.
The second world war’s removal of a generation of men meant that boys were treated like kings in the Soviet Union. Add to Russia’s demographic bias towards women its rampant alcoholism, high prison numbers and near million-man conscript army and you can understand why it isn’t exactly raining eligible bachelors on the streets of Moscow.
British men on the other hand, it would seem, are on the run from female liberation in the UK. All the men I speak to about their other halves said they found the quiet strength and femininity of the Russian women preferable to their pint-downing, man-eating British counterparts.
“Russian women are stronger,” says Glaswegian David. His Russian wife tells me this stems from perestroika times, when women went out to win the bread leaving their men at home, where they hit the booze. Whether the new economic stability will break them from such a spell is as yet uncertain. But in the meantime, foreign bachelors will have to cater for domestic demand, and it’s the British who seem to be plugging the gap.
Still, in a country not known for its transparency, foreign partners come wrapped in a ball of red tape. It’s a problem increasingly experienced from both sides. Despite Russia’s regulations being nothing in comparison with the USSR, many of the paranoid systems there constraining movement still persist. Meanwhile, Britain’s never-ending immigration panic is making it as inaccessible a fortress as the once iron-curtained Soviet Union.
The Russian people’s ambivalence towards foreigners offers another test. Brought up in a world almost devoid of other nationalities, marrying foreign is an unfamiliar phenomenon for most parents to deal with. It’s a local symptom of a much wider-felt insecurity afflicting the country as its own brand of liberalisation brings people much closer to products, ideas and others once kept out.
Russia’s austerity can also seem mystifying to lads brought up in the whirlwind of consumption that is modern Britain. Pretending to enjoy cabbage soup at the in-laws can be difficult for boys raised on pub grub and takeaways. And with no budget airlines connecting the two countries, and the cultural differences between them, choosing where to live and raise children can be a problem.
Interestingly, many of the couples in this situation are choosing to live in Russia rather than the UK. Karl, from Birmingham, to whom a half-Russian daughter was born this week, chose to live in Moscow due to the cost of living. “I got a nice flat in the centre of Moscow for under £25,000 – unthinkable in the UK. What’s more, it’s now worth over double that.”
Roland from Eastbourne came here for better job prospects. “London was a mass of people fighting over slave-driving graduate training schemes,” he says. “Here, the economy’s growing and there are far more opportunities.” His girlfriend has been promoted twice in two months and “we can actually save rather than live in debt”, he says, astonished.
But as relations deteriorate between the two countries, maybe a new British-Russian generation of parents and children will undermine their assumed differences.
April 10, 2008 at 8:33 am
Great article GL - I can’t help but feel like all the Russian women who are interested in foreign men have already left their country, though.
Still, I loved the part about living in Russia. A+ my friend, a plus.
April 10, 2008 at 11:44 am
A very interesting and refreshing perspective. I guess I didn’t realize the British were seen in such a different light.
I have had several ladies I had been writing in the last several years try to force my moves using men from the UK as reasons. I heard back from one lady who had moved to Spain with him, and then was abandoned.
I guess as is the standard, let the buyer beware. Good article though GL.
April 11, 2008 at 12:58 am
This was an all around good article from just about every perspective(except British Women). I especially like the mentioning of affordablity of living in Moscow vs. the perma-debt of elsewhere. The last paragraph also rings of truth too about these couples being a bridge for relations between countries.
April 12, 2008 at 11:48 am
RW, again your articles always are inspiring and educational. I especially found it interesting that it mentioned how British men weren’t used to home cooked meals, being raised on take aways and pub food. It is a shame that feminism is threatening men’s appreciation for traditional women.
What I am curious about, though, is the fact that Russia has experienced the full effects of feminism with the communist state. And yet the women maintained traditional values, cooking for children and seeking traditional men DESPITE their feminist past.
Women in the West, on the other hand seem to be losing this sense of family duty. And indeed, are raising a generation of misguided men who don’t know their fathers or are told that masculinity is a bad thing.
I think that if Western men are serious about finding a traditional women, then they need to do a lot of deprogramming themselves, given the damage feminism has created.
Why do you think it is that feminism in Russia and the West has created dramatically different women?
April 12, 2008 at 11:54 am
RW,
This article strikes me as being in contrast to the high divorce rates experienced in Russia. Why are divorce rates so high is traditional values are prevalent? I think I am missing something, could you elaborate?
Thanks
April 12, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Ah, sorry about the last question. I just read your article on Divorce in Russia
April 12, 2008 at 7:04 pm
Anon Girl,
I’m not sure what you are referring to when you say the feminist movement in Russia. Even under communism women still held their traditional roles or worked in very feminine jobs, they weren’t trying to be men like they are now. I believe that traditional values have held true in Russia is because they have not been enveloped by the modern feminist movement. As Moscow has become more involved in modern society the feminists grip is already being seen there and these values are disappearing. I’ve already seen “Moscow is not Russia” quoted more than a few times.
Traditional values are still around wherever family is very strong, and in this region of the world this holds true. Strong traditional family values bring up a traditional society.
There is a very strong correlation between the high divorce rate and the way these women are. There is a shortage of men and this creates competition for the available ones that are avaiable. These strong feminine traits and values are very strong in the women because this is what men desire the most, thereby increasing their chance of getting one. They know if the man no longer wants to be with him he will simply divorce her and easily find another young beautiful woman.
You also mention the deprogramming that western men need to ever think about being with a traditional woman. Yes, there is a major reprogram needed to adjust to this. Most of the american men I know would fit into the “woman” role in their relationship more than the “man” part.
April 12, 2008 at 9:38 pm
You’ve got that right Anongirl. Starting with getting used to the idea that many women in Russia are not competitors or worse, a mortal enemy. The next thing is men remembering that they are men and how to act like one, but unfortunately many younger men do not even know what it is to be a man. That is because they had no contact whatsoever with men who are a positive role model, instead of gang bangers, thugs or weak, ineffectual men. The cultural differences between Russia and America are night and day. My grandmother was Russian, and I can tell you a Russian woman’s family is the most important thing in her Universe. Russians have lived through hardships, wars, genocidal invasions, poverty, and famines that few people here can imagine. They are also descended from very different people that most Americans are. Their culture is more based on that of Ancient Greece and the Byzantine Empire than Ancient Rome like ours is. Also, they did not become Christians until Crown Prince Vladimir brought it to the region from the Byzantine Empire in 988 A.D. Until then, the peoples living in Russia were pagans. The only thing people traditionally can count on was their families, and people stuck together and looked out for each other out of sheer survival. They never had the traditions of individual freedoms we have, let alone many other things we take fore granted. That is why Russian culture differs so much from ours.
April 12, 2008 at 11:39 pm
A brilliant article! I think it is the second positive one already
I also like the point made on living in Moscow instead of in the UL. As a foregin manager one can earn in Moscow much more than in Europe, that is what I know from firends. And although life is expencive in Moskau, one still can do very well, when well off. A good solution for inter-cultral couples.
I noticed that Russians do not really like to immigrate. Many miss a lot thier home (nostalgie, you know) and sooner or later come back.
April 13, 2008 at 9:05 pm
But what will all the Russian men do?
From what you’re saying, Russian women are ‘traditional’ women, which would imply that Russian men are ‘traditional’ men. Whereas British women are ‘non-traditional’, and perhaps British men also?
So Russian women prefer non-traditional men rather than the hyper-macho Russian kind? Certainly they seemed to have turned away from macho Russian men.
April 15, 2008 at 10:43 am
A nice article indeed, thought I’m not sure the whole story is true.I’m affraid you won’t get even a closet for your 25 000 quid in the center of Moscow. It’s more like 350 000 for a flat.
April 15, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Perhaps he bought it in 1997?
April 15, 2008 at 9:23 pm
SunnyInSanDiego, Anon 2:
Western Men are so desirable exactly for their balance of protective manliness and fine emotional qualifications that are rated as “femininity” in the MMPI test.
Like Joseph said, “We are trained to be the best husbands in the world. But imagine a dog that runs up to the owner, seeks eye contact, bursts to caress, brings slippers - but no one needs it…”
Sincerely,
Comrade Natalia Out For The Brit )
April 16, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Josh,
This is certainly not the case from my vantage point. I’ve said this before but I believe an exceedingly small percentage of Women in this part of the world join agencies or get listed on Social sites. The number is growing for the later but you have nothing to worry about.
Just get over here.. see for yourself and put your mind to rest.
GL
April 16, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Hi anon girl,
Yes I wonder what the deal is too with British Men in terms of if they rarely get home cooked meals or not.
It’s easy to get confused about socialism and feminism. Both are promoting the dangerous ideology of “equality” but for different groups. Socialism was supposed to be about “Class Equality” while Feminism is supposed to be about “Gender Equality”..
Huge differences..
From what I’ve heard in the early history of the Soviet Union Lenin played around with the ideal of Feminism in order to break down the traditional family so that there would be more alegience to the State but this play worked way too well from what I understand and it was creating a social disaster so it was very quickly reigned in.
When the USSR decided to keep it’s emphasis on “Class Equality” it essentially created a self-destructive system where no individual initiative could be appropriately rewarded and even the most unproductive members of society were given many of the same benefits as everyone else. This is why they tried to call it a “Workers Paradise”.
So in many ways this society took a huge step backwards towards the 18th century. No modern home or shopping conveniences only meant that the Women especially had to work harder and do more in order to keep their families afloat.
Family survival was always dependent on the Woman of the house well before and after the advent of the Communists. There is simply a long cultural tradition of these women being both strong and feminine at the same time.
You are absolutely right in my mind about how it’s critical for Western Men to reclaim their masculinity in the right ways.
If Western Men do not do this then this vacuum will be quickly filled up with with Western Women acting like Men.
Thanks for your comment.
GL
April 17, 2008 at 12:56 am
Deep interest in partner people’s history is always admirable. On early Soviet time, the name of Alexandra Kollontai opens up a vault of gender material.
She has joined Lenin’s circle with a chip against “bourgeous” morals and a creed of free love as simple as “drinking a glass of water”, at the same time being a keen author of juridical schemes to secure and balance material interests. But property issues were found too “bourgeous”.)
Among early Communists, widely fashionable was the doctrine of communal relationships. But it failed for psychological and economic reasons. Above that, “free love” was too distracting from the social cause. Sublimation, Sir! )
Thus family has avoided dispersion and became a “cell of society”. One could lose Party membership for a divorce or other sort of “immoral behavior”. In the end, one young girl at a transcontinental telebridge has pompously declared: “Sex? There is no sex in the USSR!” )
But gender equality was never disputed at least officially, and there have been women in all stages of administration up to the government (though still more were in hard physical labor).
Also the Soviet system was thanked for “milk kitchens”, free education, and extracurricular clubs that prevented kids from hitting the streets. Kindergartens could produce friendships for life - or low-cultural contamination, and many women took care to do without them, relying on relatives, assistants (could you imagine!) or taking the children around with them. But that’s another topic. )
Sincerely,
Capitalist Comrade Natalia
April 17, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Hey, I have been in Greece, back now.
I think this article is a must read for everyone on this blog, Brits included. Its about a Russian woman’s impressions of England, and it’s women:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=560171&in_page_id=1879&ito=1490
April 17, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Some of this article is right on the money. Brits do drink too much, and do get into too many fights, and are too fat, and eat too many ready meals.
BUT some of the article is utterly shameless in its hypocrisy!
First example. Olga complains about British women’s peroxide hair and claims they are ‘brainwashed’ into wearing skinny jeans, leggings or miniskirts….
Perhaps you would not find leggings on the streets of Moscow. But you would find bleached hair, skinny jeans and miniskirts in abundance!
Furthermore, who says there is anything particularly wrong with dyeing one’s hair, or with wearing skinny jeans and miniskirts? And how exactly were either Russian or British women ‘brainwashed’ into it?
Secondly, for a Russian to claim that “We do not binge-drink ourselves into oblivion the way the British do” is just insulting. GL has mentioned elsewhere the disgusting drinking of Russian men.
Thirdly, Olga seems to criticise Brits for using public transport rather than private cabs (”Then, when you’re finished, you take the Tube home. Why, when there are taxis out there and you can get home gracefully? You seem to be able to buy lots of clothes, so why can’t you afford a taxi?”). This alone makes me glad I’m living in Europe. Obsession with a car as a status symbol is probably why Moscow has some of the worst traffic problems in the world!
Certainly there are things Brits can learn from Russians and vice versa — but let’s stick to facts and a soupcon of common sense…
Dawn
April 18, 2008 at 3:16 am
Dawn,
I agree Olga’s opinion is off from what we’ve been seeing here and elsewhere on her opinion of the Russian side of things. She is from Moscow though and things seem to be changing rapidly there.
I’m rather suprised by her statements about the skinny jeans and mini-skirts too. GL has posted many pictures of average Russian girls out with revealing clothing on.
I do wonder where she grew up in Russia where drinking was never a problem, in a country known for it’s vodka there can’t be too many places.
The part about taking the tube over a taxi was rather odd, it’s seems an odd standard to judge a nation of people on.
I did enjoy the part of the British men prefering to go to Russia though. It must be pretty hard times if these men would prefer to bail out rather than stay in their nanny-state. If I had to pay as much in taxes as they do to support as many people that do nothing as they do I’d take the next flight out as well. That’s without even mentioning the near impossible visa system.
We’ve heard “Moscow is not Russia,” but is it really that much different as to affect her view of life that much?
April 18, 2008 at 3:39 am
I guess the six-year margin in observation explains much. My first visit to Moscow was less than 2 years ago and if cities were girls I would visualize exactly a bleached, scorched and pumped “model of human” ((C) M.Zadornov) flashing her lumbus to the frost. )
The manners of the newly-pubertal generations make me feel languorously looking forward to join the 30 group, and almost envying to Fanny Ardent. ) Was up to say that OUR women indeed don’t allow themselves to drink so hard, but instantly remembered the sorely popular links to Russian socialites carried home in the condition of that Lenin’s log at the famous Subbotnik.
But at least it takes Slavs a whole night of drinking spirits to get so sloshed as a let-us-not-point-fingers-at-other nationals after a bottle of beer. Genetic accommodation, or pre-alcoholic stage of training - I know, neither is a ground for national pride. Instead, my verdict is, “Can not drink - don’t!”
A propos de costs of living…
http://www.mercer.com/referencecontent.jhtml?idContent=1268475
Sincerely,
Crabbed Aunt Natalia frustrated in her loftiest Anglophile ideals )
April 18, 2008 at 3:47 am
P.S. Would spend my last on a cab only not to go underground.
April 18, 2008 at 12:02 pm
I actually enjoyed the comments comming from the people who neither live nor been to Msc long enough to understand what it’s like. Cuz as I’ve stated many times most of those *tuned* females are hardly ever moscovites.
Peroxide…. most of English roses from my exchange class have gone 3 tones lighter since the last time I saw them in person. Not saying it’s bad, its just… weird.
Abundance of mini skirts and skinny jeans can be seen mostly on girls who are not overweight. And you won’t see those lovely folds of fat tissues that they call curves, for god knows what reason. And maybe you have fogotten how the young British and Irish folk look on friday? they’re marching the streets in mini skirts and toe-less shoes when its +2 outside. I always admired their ability of doing this without having goose pimples on their exposed body parts. Fantastic..
“Secondly, for a Russian to claim that “We do not binge-drink ourselves into oblivion the way the British do” is just insulting. GL has mentioned elsewhere the disgusting drinking of Russian men” - I feel pretty damn insulted by the steriotypes you hold, btw. English drink way more than Russians do, fact. Ever seen an Englishman takin one small sip of his vodka shot, and then putting it away? When a Russian guy would gulp the whole shot. So now tell me who of these two will get drunk faster?
Russians simply don’t subscribe to “let’s get pissed” friday-saturday madness. Being drunk in public considered to be Shameful. For a Russian. There’s nothing funny in a phrase *oh I got soo drunk last night*, meanwhile Englishmen start giggling like schoolboys when they hear smt like that. Vodka drinking is a ritual. Only drunks drink themselves into numb state. Thats what I believe GL has never mentioned. So I won’t be seeing any white collar crawling into Moscow metro cab semi-unconscious, because its shameful for him, but not for those English dudes I saw on DLR. Breaking into the cab, strugling with the automatic doors, with their very own puke all over their expensive suits…and at the same time he could have happily hired a cab for himself and didn’t have to expose the innocent ppl to danger of seeing him drunk.
So there…nobody is saint.
Kind Regards,
Moscow born&bred
Kisha.
April 18, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Kisha, perhaps only drunks drink themselves into a numb state (by definition, one would assume)… but there are an awful lot of drunks in Russia. See this article, from the highly respected British Medical Journal
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/329/7476/1202-a
One major difference between Russia and the UK that the author of the Daily Mail article did not note, is that in the UK it is sadly almost more common to see drunk girls and women falling out of pubs than men.
April 19, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Looks like I’ve got some answers here
How to Survive a Russian Party: Courses, Drinks, Hangover – Medical Advice
April 20, 2008 at 2:52 am
Thanks you for the clarifications Kisha. A statement, and a meaning behind a statement can mean drastically different things to different readers.
Quoted from Kisha “Abundance of mini skirts and skinny jeans can be seen mostly on girls who are not overweight. And you won’t see those lovely folds of fat tissues that they call curves, for god knows what reason.”
I know this look all to well…
May 14, 2008 at 3:10 pm
@Dawn
Having lived in Russia now for 4 years (as an Ex-pat Brit) it’s fair to say the Russians don’t binge drink like we do. I think very few countries can match the volume that UK drinkers put away between 8-11pm on a Friday or Saturday night.
Russians do drink heavily but this will always be accompanied by food. That prevents you getting hit by the vodka and even though considerable amounts have been drunk at parties, I’ve remained far more sober than at similar events in the UK.
Russians are also ‘good drunks’, they know how to handle it. I used to live in Brighton and at the weekends you would see a fight every 100m on your way home. I’ve never seen that in Russia and I live in one of the poorest (and roughest) regions here.
The worse you’ll see here is someone falling over or trying to sleep by the road. Even then, passers by will try and get the person up and into a taxi - especially in the sub zero winters. There is good social cohesion here, people aren’t afraid to tell a drunk stranger to calm down or behave. Imagine doing that in the UK these days!
May 16, 2008 at 12:41 pm
I’m American born and raised, but I regard public intoxication to be disgraceful in the extreme, as well as dangerous. I was nearly killed last year by a drunk driver. Here someone dead drunk would be left on the side of the road, robbed, or killed in any major city. To top that off, just like Britain you will see a lot of girls and younger women dead drunk here too. I rarely drink alcohol which may seem odd for someone whose paternal relatives are Ukrainian and Russian, but I’ve see firsthand how alcoholism destroys people’s lives.