From Jess
Actually it is the FEMALE that is the most selective. We are made to pick the healthy men to have our babies and then the stable ones to help raise them and provide for the family. If we all followed our nature our preferred partner would be someone with good genes who is physically fit, attractive, intelligent and a good provider (sense of humor sold separately). We look for those good genes to pass them down to our children. Of course we live in a modern world (i.e women no longer need a ‘provider’) and remember that we are still evolving.
I really can’t say much about Western women because I don’t understand them. And yes I am one of them (Canadian). I’ve talked to male friends about their problems with women and I honestly can not fathom the actions and reasoning of those said females. From girls cheating to using men for their money or expecting to be treated like queens while they don’t do anything at all for their partners. A relationship is supposed to be 50/50. That’s the way I see it.
Though if you’re the type of men who expect women to be their ’slaves’ (cook and clean (kids optional) all day while looking perfect with a bright smile on her face. And have sex whenever you want and fulfill your every fantasy while you don’t even do anything to sexually please her) while you treat her like shit then I can’t help you there. Just wait for the moment that your dying and then realize that even if you had someone, you really were alone.
Also I think that we all, instead of blaming everyone else, should take a look inside. Have you though that maybe, JUST maybe, it’s you?
Hi Jess,
I originally felt like you were presenting a rational post until you flip flopped and pushed the standard Feminist accusation that Men who want more STABLE wives in their lives are looking for “Slaves”..
I really thought about trying to craft a polite response to you because you showed some sympathies towards your male friends and the difficulties they have with their wives or girlfriends.
Unfortunately you have bought into too much of the Feminist “party line” for this so there is really no other way to get my point across (and to maybe get you to think differently) unless I come out and admonish you with both guns blazing..
So saying that.. I have 2 things I’d like to bring up…
ONE
You mentioned that you had a hard time understanding why the women associated with your male friends were so manipulative or dysfunctional.
So as you keep this in mind.. Let me ask you something..
WHEN was the last time you actually met a Manipulative Man who wanted a “Slave”?
I’m willing to BET you haven’t..
It’s because the simple ECONOMICS of supply and demand for qualified women to be suitable marriage partners (to qualified men) in the US and the WEST make this scenario EXTREMELY unlikely.
Because of this.. the premise that you floated that perhaps it “maybe a Man’s fault” for not being able to create a happy marriage is CLEARLY in the MINORITY.
This is because by definition.. If Good Men CANNOT EASILY find Good Women to build a stable family with then I can guarantee you that Bad Men will find it IMPOSSIBLE to do so.
- Are the Men you are friends with “Bad Men”?
- Are they Stupid?
- Do they have serious Character Flaws?
- Do they want a “Slave Woman”?
If Not.. Then why in the Hell are they having so many problems with Women?
Is it their Fault?
Or
Are they Good and Decent Men who cannot find Good Women out of no fault of their own or lack of effort on their part?
Answer this question and multiply it by 100 Million and you begin to see the real picture.
So now that i’ve illustrated the REAL big picture I firmly believe that we must question what is ACTUALLY behind the Feminist AGENDA in order for them to so strongly perpetuate destructive myths about Men.
Could it be similar to the belief that Hitler promoted about Jewish people being responsible for all of Germany’s problems before and during World War II? Hitler was evil but he wasn’t completely stupid.. He knew that as long as he could keep his population believing that they were under threat by the Jews and others he had the “Moral” right to marginalize and then exterminate them.
So here’s the main point that I want you to remember..
Every Evil movement in history has ALWAYS targeted another group to denigrate and neutralize in order to GAIN POWER.
The Feminist belief that “it’s all a Man’s Fault” is all too OBVIOUSLY part of this process.
(Please read my previous article if you’d like to learn more..)
But the bigger problem for Modern Women is this.
After WWII the German people were treated as pariahs for their complicity in advancing the Nazi agenda and the incredible destruction of European & Russian society that it spawned. Because of the anti-Jewish propaganda they were subjected to.. most of the German people at that time felt that they were RIGHT to blindly follow Hitler whom they regarded as a Savior.
But after the War.. and once the Truth on Hitler was exposed.. the once proud Germans experienced DEEP SHAME in knowing that they were judged by the world as not only FOOLS but also as EVIL people as well. And even after 60 years they are STILL dealing with this shame to this day.
So what does this means for any woman who “still believes” in Feminism.
It doesn’t take much to be on the wrong side of history and to be judged harshly by your peers or even future generations. One naive belief in a vicious but trendy idea without questioning it is often all that it takes.
And Jess I don’t think this is what you want your life to be seen as..
TWO
Jess are you saying that anyone who cooks, cleans, changes diapers and sexually satisfies their partner is a “Slave”?
Well then according to your definition I am a Slave and so are Millions of other Men as well! And you don’t really see us bitching about doing this work now do you?
Are you ALSO telling me that women like you are TOO GOOD to cook, clean, change diapers, and sexually satisfy their partner? Well if that’s the case then you and any Woman who thinks this has ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS being involved in a marriage.
Quite frankly all of this Feminist Dogma about being liberated from house work and child care is a pretty poor spin for what the REAL TRUTH is..
The truth of someone who flaunts a “Liberated Woman” tag as a poor attempt to hide that they are just another sad old self-centered narcissist.
“Me me me me me me me.. and oh by the way any problems I have is all a Man’s fault!”
This is called Mass Denial.. And consequently.. the Communist tried to do something very similar.. Their loud screams and bloody purges in the name of “equality” and “liberation” was really a bad cover-up for their own laziness, envy and theft..
Wow.. Doesn’t that sound like a full-on Feminist agenda if I ever heard of one!
So guess how much respect Communism got from the rest of the world for promoting this?
So boys and girls.. can you say “Failed Societies”?
And when you think about the “Equality” of Feminism..
Can you say “Failed Families” which can easily lead to another “Failed Society”..
You need to understand that the people who were brought up in a Communist environment are widely considered to be a “lost generation”. I am certain that history will pay the feminist movement and it’s followers the same judgment.
So let me push the pause button on this history lesson and give you the bottom line..
And this is something I want you to understand the next time you feel like implying that basic family duties are “beneath” your dignity as a woman.
Russian women are REAL Women because they traditionally view family duties NOT as a burden but as an HONOR.
- There is HONOR in taking care of your children.
- There is HONOR in taking care of your husband.
- There is HONOR in taking care of your family.
And there is COMPLETE HONOR for any Man to be a part of this woman’s life.
You mentioned that a “Modern society” produces “Modern women” who have NO need for a provider.. Well this is something we actually agree on. I’m sure that “Modern women” would make excellent business partners and co-workers and of course they are fully free to be as “Independent” as they want..
BUT
Life NEVER allows you to have it both ways no matter how much any Modern Women want this to be true.. You cannot have a car that is both an SUV and a sports car. It’s either one or the other.. And likewise you CANNOT be a “liberated” career woman who “doesn’t need a man as a provider” AND still believe you can be a good mother or wife.
This is all so obvious.. BECAUSE a woman who identifies herself as a Feminist Career Woman DOES NOT have the necessary Motivation or the Character required to be a good wife or mother.
There is simply WAY too much of a Conflict of Interest for it to work out.
And that means that any man who is foolish or unfortunate enough to have a serious relationship with a woman like this is just sitting on a time bomb.
Furthermore, any children who are born under this false pretense of “Family” are emotionally cheated beyond belief.. They are the ones who always pay the steepest price for the selfishness of their “Liberated” Mothers.
And often.. it’s a price these children have to pay for the rest of their lives.
Ultimately when the time comes and this woman is ready to meet her maker.. As she lies there in bed during the last few moments of her life.. Will she look up to see the grim faces and disappointed expressions of her children?
Or will she just simply be alone?
August 30, 2006 at 7:59 am
Good stuff!!! Real good stuff!!!!! If the light bulb doesn’t go off in her head after reading that, then I don’t think it ever will.
August 30, 2006 at 10:15 am
Harvey, my guess is there will be no light bulb going off here.
This write up is using reason, that does not work with these people. In my experience, why pull your punches? I don’t anymore. I am completely through with American (and Canadian) women – they mean nothing to me anymore.
You can try to use logic like this – and it is a great write up – but it is better spent on men. They will understand what you are saying and they will start to explore other options. More and more men are simply going their own way – ‘the men have left the house’.
Since simply turning my back on American women, my life is so much better. To be involved now with a Russian woman who actually considers it an honor to care for her family and home – well let’s just say in return I adore her and gladly give her everything I can.
I am fortunate indeed.
August 30, 2006 at 10:28 am
Harvey, my guess is there will be no light bulb going off here.
This write up is using reason, that does not work with these people. In my experience, why pull your punches? I don’t anymore. I am completely through with American (and Canadian) women – they mean nothing to me anymore.
You can try to use logic like this – and it is a great write up – but it is better spent on men. They will understand what you are saying and they will start to explore other options. More and more men are simply going their own way – ‘the men have left the house’.
Since simply turning my back on American women, my life is so much better. To be involved now with a Russian woman who actually considers it an honor to care for her family and home – well let’s just say in return I adore her and gladly give her everything I can.
I am fortunate indeed.
As for ‘slaves’ that is one of my favorite myths about Russian women. Anyone who would accuse a man of ‘you just married a Russian women because she is submissve’ has never met a Russian woman. They have real strength and independence. Somehow American women have come to think of strength as shouting and acting obnoxious. They have no real concept of strength or independence.
Spend some time with Russian women, you can see the real deal.
August 30, 2006 at 3:59 pm
Wow… just when I thought it couldn’t get any better you go and do it again. Great post GL! It just MAKES SENSE – I wish more women (western women) really understood what you have written here.
I don’t need to explain it to my RUSSIAN girlfriend… precisely why I’m so DAMN HAPPY – She is FAR from a “slave”
August 30, 2006 at 4:13 pm
Hi Will..
Thanks again buddy..
You have no idea how much material I can write about in regards to this subject. I’ve only scratched the surface quite frankly. And it has more to do with the nature of these women and their background as compared to anything I’ve done. Tell your GF thanks for her lovely post. Nice to know that I also have some Russian women fans too! Would love to get her perspective on this post as well.
Take care..
GL
August 30, 2006 at 5:06 pm
I’m actually QuietRebel using different name. Thanks for that wonderful and thoughtful post. That’s exactly what my mom claims when I told her things that I want from my future lady such as cooking, making her man happy, keeping home lovely and keep family together. Her response is always been that way… “Do you want a slave? Are you looking for a slave?” I was laughing hard when I heard that response from my mom. Jeez, she still doesn’t get it. I don’t need to argue with her anymore.
I’m planning on a trip to Russia within few years to see for myself about Russia and possible working opportunities over there where I would like to live there for few years to learn what it’s like in Russia and how those Russian ladies had to survive through.
August 30, 2006 at 5:24 pm
Hi QuiteRebel,
You should print out this post and leave it lying around the house someplace so your mom can “accidentally” find it.. I’m sure it would be a very interesting event. She would probably treat this FAR worse then any porno mag she may have ever found from you. 😉
August 30, 2006 at 5:44 pm
I used to think my father was the real strength in the family but it was actually my mother. She had a quiet loving strength about her that is evident by being in her presence. Mom was the foundation in my family and Dad was the bricks and mortar. It takes both to build a home and it take a mother and father to build a loving family. Before I met my wife, I was the foundation and “house” to my two kids and I was weary from being both. But when she enterred my life, she displayed the same quiet strength that I have come to know and love. My wife is now the foundation and I would not have it any other way. A Russian wife will be submissive only when hell freezes over or when Siberia becomes a sun-resort.
August 30, 2006 at 6:18 pm
The problem women from the anglosphere do not understand about their sisters from Eastern Europe and Russia is that under the old Soviet system they were ‘forced’ to be equal among men. If a woman in the old Soviet system pursued femininity, family domesticity, make up and dresses would be acting like the bourgeoisie. So with the collapse of the Soviet system in 1991, you have a mad rush of the women to act like women. I know this statement will upset the ‘blank slaters’ of modern gender feminist theory. That feminity is a construct of the evil male patriarchy. Blah, blah, blah.
I am not in the business of trashing women from any region of the world. It is about how I want to have a future and healthy family. There is too much risk with modern Western women. Even if the woman rejects feminism, they still entitle themselves with the perks. The court system is in their favor, the divorce laws, social and welfare programs at their disposal and the media at their feet. Look at the whole ordeal at Forbes magazine about an article on the risks of getting involved with a career woman. The article used statistics and quantitative research on the risks of being involved with a modern career woman. Within 24 hours of the ‘storm’ of reaction a counter article by one of their female journalists wrote a subjective article how wonderful her family life is as a career woman.
Look at TV shows or movies of men who are married to foreign brides. They are type casts as sociopathic men who want living slaves. One popular show had a guy who would padlocks all over the kitchen so his foreign bride would not get fat. Or the foreign brides are gold digging manipulators. Another show still used the old ‘babushka’ stereotype of a Russian woman.
August 30, 2006 at 7:55 pm
Great Point Joe..
And great history too.. I would just love it if that Forbes article guy could participate with this site. I read the article it was a good one too since it was backed up like you said with tons of research..
Please keep posting your insights..
Cheers, GL
August 31, 2006 at 1:20 am
No problemo, GL.
September 1, 2006 at 11:40 pm
rw_man is so clear and correct. He must do this stuff for a living.
I’m an old veteran now. I wish I had the insight of the younger fellows before I was beaten up emotionally and financially. But that was 25 years ago.
I still love women, but the sad fact is that once the trust is gone, it’s impossible to get it back. You can’t put this Humpty back together again.
September 2, 2006 at 6:58 am
Hello Barney,
Thank you for joining us and for giving me your kind endorsement.
Barney I don’t know your history but I can tell you that it’s never too late.
We Men have the gift of time and value as we get older when it comes to selecting mates.
There are plenty of women here who I’m sure would be honored to know you and among them I’m positive you would find one to be your loving wife.
In American Football you know that it often doesn’t matter if your down in points during the 4th quarter of the game. All that matters is that you score and come out a winner.
I truly believe that on some level we can all do this despite the obstacles. And believe me I also know what life’s obstacles can be. But as you probably know this all comes down to Heart. Cause the only way you will come out on top is if you have the heart and fortitude to do it.
Lou Holtz the coach for Notre Dame said this.
“Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond to it…”
The good news Barney is that the End Zone DOES EXIST. And as long as you can begin to see it.. you can start doing what it takes to chew up the yards in order to reach it.
If you truly love women then reaching this goal is a worthy mission.. Because you can take this love you have and do something VERY Valuable with it..
I know for a fact that you could invest it into some lovely and lonely middle-aged lady here who is also looking to invest her love into a good man no matter what his age is..
Maybe someone like you..
September 5, 2006 at 5:54 pm
I agree with GL. It’s never too late. Take me, I’m 45 which is middle age if I die at 90. I met a wonderful Russian woman and I have been the happiest since. Don’t give up.
September 5, 2006 at 6:37 pm
I agree. I still love girls. They are very wonderful creations from nature.
In fact, I have been burned a lot in the past by American women. My experiences include some very violent encounters and harrassments and stalking that got me to get the police involved. I can go on and on about my past experiences with American women.
I am not complaining about my horrible experiences with American girls I dated in the past. I just looked at them as opportunities to learn. More lessons for me to learn. For example, learning what’s to look for in girls and what I can do better to find much better girls. I won’t be reading this website and learning about feminism if it was not for my old American girlfriends.
If you want to succeed in life, just fail more and more. Failures are just temporary, and they don’t reflect who you are. Just don’t give up. Keep going…
The worst thing you can do is just sitting down and moaning & complaining about how awful western women are. That won’t help you at all.
I will be travelling to Russia to find a great and beautiful lady. I don’t care what those feminists and politicians think.
September 5, 2006 at 7:49 pm
I agree with you 100 percent Rule62. We as men have to keep trying, because if we give up, the feminists win. That is one of several reasons why I would like to visit Ukraine and Russia, and why I am taking steps to make it happen.
Taras, also known as replikator656
September 5, 2006 at 9:23 pm
All this talk about female “slavery” reminds me of a line from “Paradise Lost” by John Milton:
“It’s better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven.”
Can you guess who said that? Kudos to you who said the angel formerly known as Lucifer. It’s exactly the type of thinking of women who don’t want to be a “slave” to their husband.
September 5, 2006 at 9:26 pm
Exactly Hero. It seems many women are just like Lucifer when he was cast into the pit along with his followers. Let them rule in a Hell of their own making. I for one choose not to be dragged down there with them.
Taras
September 6, 2006 at 2:07 am
Indeed!
September 6, 2006 at 2:15 am
You got it, Hero! I choose not to let myself dragged down with them! I just rebuke them!
QuietRebel known as EnjoyLife
September 9, 2006 at 11:51 pm
Being with an American woman is like being in hell because you are all career minded wastes
of humans. Thank God for foreign women. Hopefully they replace all the obese scum women in America.
American women dont know shit about culture because American dont have any.
If men are smart they should really visit the Czech Republic, Hungary, and Russa. Hell visit Brazil or Thailand as well.
There they will realize that the women are NOT slaves.
Feminsts belives that any woman that has values, loyalty, and hot, is a slave.
As usual the feminsts are retarded piece of crap that will always be WRONG.
October 26, 2007 at 5:29 pm
RW_man directed me to this post a few days ago, and I’ve been thinking about it a lot. Here are my thoughts….
It would drive me mad to stay home alone with children for years. Trust me on this. I would not be fulfilled, I would be frustrated. Like many men, I suspect.
The problem is that I want kids but I do not want to look after them all the time. This would not be a problem if I were a man, but I am a woman. Men who think like me can get wives to do it for them, but it’s hard to find a husband who will look after children full-time while I work. And so we get to the question that has been posed to me elsewhere on this site: how can I justify having children if they will not have a fulltime parent?
I think about it like this.
It’s true that you cannot be both a sports car and an SUV. Every hour you spend with your family is an hour you are not working. Every hour you are working is an hour you are not spending with your family. This cannot be denied. You cannot be the best businessman in the world and also the best father in the world.
But why are those the only options?
Think of a similar conflict of other roles. For example, you cannot be the best mother in the world and also the best daughter in the world. You cannot be the best friend in the world and also the best husband in the world. Every hour you spend teaching your children to read is an hour you are not spending with your sick parents. Every hour you spend counselling your best friend through a divorce, is an hour you are not comforting your wife.
But we don’t expect people to choose between these restricted options. We don’t expect people with elderly parents to give up having children because it would take up some of their precious parent-caring time. We don’t expect people who have husbands to never ever see their friends. We accept that people divide their time among many competing demands. My career, which I love, is one such demand.
To extend RW_man’s car analogy, I am a ‘hybrid’. I do not aspire to be the best mother in the world. If I did, I’d drop everything else (friends, parents, as well as job) to devote myself to my children. Instead, I aspire to be a *good* mother (and daughter, wife, and businesswoman). Just a competent, adequate one. My children will have me some of the time, their father some of the time, childcare some of the time, friends some of the time, and school some of the time. They’ll be just fine. I don’t think this is selfish just as I don’t think any of you are selfish for not devoting yourself 100% to any one of the many roles we all play in life.
Now, I understand why the men on this website want a submissive domestic wife. Hell, I would love to have a submissive domestic wife. How very convenient. But I’m a woman, and wives are harder for us to come by. Unfortunately we have to contract them by the hour and call them ‘nannies’. Such is life. Luckily we get to have a husband as well, and they’re wonderful.
October 26, 2007 at 9:22 pm
VisitingGirl,
Can I play too? I have one – All men are rational beings, and no man is a woman; thus no woman is rational.
-Mick
P.S. Is your nanny single?
October 26, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Mick: Actually your reasoning there is fallacious.
However, your conclusion is nonetheless accurate. 😉
And yes, he’ll probably end up with the nanny (or the secretary, or the P.A.). Eventually most men (consciously or not) choose true femininity (which is always receptive and never “equivalent”)…
October 26, 2007 at 10:11 pm
Socon,
One’s husband straying is a scary thought indeed. Women should try to marry men with integrity who value the bonds of marriage.
However, there is always the chance that a woman will make a selection mistake. This risk exists regardless of whether a woman takes care of her husband’s children full-time or part-time. There will always be a secretary, PA, or girl next door. Men without integrity can disrespect the bonds of marriage merely because their wife is getting old. And no woman is young forever. Husbands (and wives) stray sometimes; this is a risk we all take. By the way, infidelity is certainly not unknown in Russia 🙂
It’s not hard to find men of integrity if you look in the right places; I think all my male friends fall into this categoy. Of course, only time will tell which of us make the right choice of partners.
October 26, 2007 at 10:20 pm
-sigh-
VisitingGirl…
Let’s just agree that our respective positions on these issues are irreconcilable, and quit the petty bickering.
October 26, 2007 at 10:25 pm
🙂
October 26, 2007 at 10:31 pm
🙄
October 27, 2007 at 12:43 am
VisitingGirl,
I have to admit that I stopped reading after “It would drive me mad to stay home alone with children for years… I would not be fulfilled, I would be frustrated.”
Because I couldn’t get past the question “Why do you want to have kids??” And everything after that was rationalization. Therefore irrelevant. Therefore boring.
But your aside, “Like many men, I suspect” spoke volumes. It showed your deep resentment. Feminism has taught you that to be a woman is something to be ashamed of. And that resentment is the way out of that.
Would you collect a library full of books and have no interest in reading them? Just to have the library?
Would you take a trip around the world and stay in your cabin the whole time? Just to say you did it?
Would you buy a house only to let it rot and fall apart?
Because that’s what you’re doing by having kids with no interest in actually raising them. It’s mystifying. Do you see having children as nothing more than a way to impress the world and validate your existence?
October 27, 2007 at 1:03 am
“Visiting” Girl is actually a very apt moniker.
Not to beat a dead horse, but:
You don’t see what you’ve got to gain
But you don’t like to lose
You watch yourself from the sidelines
Like your life is a game you don’t mind playing
To keep yourself amused
I don’t mean to be cruel baby
But you’re looking confused
– Jackson Browne
October 27, 2007 at 10:41 am
Craig
I appreciate your post, and I see where your question is coming from.
Again I think the answer lies somewhere between two extremes. The choice is not between spending either a) 0% or b) 100% of your life looking after children. There are some other numbers in between.
To use your example: I love to read, and I would like a house with a nice big library of books. I’d certainly spend some time reading them. But I wouldn’t spend ALL my time reading. I wouldn’t spend ALL my time with my kids. That doesn’t mean I don’t love them or value them or enjoy spending time with them. After all, do you spend ALL your time with your wife? Probably not. But this doesn’t mean you don’t love and value her, and it certainly doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have married her.
October 27, 2007 at 2:58 pm
VisitingGirl,
I still don’t understand why you would want to have children if they will be such a distraction for you. You believe that extremes are automatically wrong and that a moderate position is correct. The fundamental issue in your position is that the “middle ground” represents a compromise between 0% vs. 100% of your time with YOUR children which you must then pick-and-choose. Keeping in mind the children (the ones that leave you so unfulfilled and frustrated) must be watched 100% of the time. I find that those who push for equality want to pick-and-choose the things they want to be equal. I think the answer here is not how much time you should be spending with your children but whether or not you should be having children.
-Mick
October 27, 2007 at 4:37 pm
I am surprised that it is difficult for you to understand. Can you imagine really enjoying an activity, but not wanting to do it ALL the time? That’s the emotion.
Kids aren’t just a ‘distraction’ — they’re a wonderful, joyful and central part of my existence. But they are not its entirety.
October 27, 2007 at 5:52 pm
I think this is a good case for “Women are from Venus, Men are from Mars” I understand visiting girls position well. Maybe I’m “in touch” with my left side of the brain today?
All of us go through seasons in life that change who we are forever. Having children is one of them and someting none of us take lightly. I was able to be the best father and best Business man. You just have to purpose to do it. You take life as it comes to you. You surely can’t plan everything. One thing for sure is Family comes first. Wife, then kids, then the family beyond your inner circle. Dog, Cat and mouse etc.
5 years into my first marriage we adopted twin girls. Our lives completely changed. I had my twin and my wife had hers, each child could only be comforted by their exclusive parent.
When my twin daughters were 10 years old my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer. I instantly became Mr. Mom and had to do everything for all of them and still keep working 12 hours a day to pay the medical bills. Our share after insurance came to $88,000 that first year. This went on for 5 years. During the first 3 surgeries, and chemo, I took on the role of Nurse, Mother, Daddy and became a workoholic. I was lucky to sleep 4 hours a night.
We really have little control over what paths we take in life. Sometimes that path is chosen for us.
I believe in marriage, Husband and wife become one, equal partners who should be willing and able to equally share the duties of raising a family crossing over typical stereotyes of who does what.
Guys, we can change diapers and give kids baths (to a certain age) and read the bedtime stories as well as the women. We all have our specialties.
visiting girl,, we all need to seek a balanced life. We can have it all.
Misha
October 27, 2007 at 5:59 pm
VisitingGirl,
I can tell you’re getting emotional.
Two more points: Knowing your passion and knowing your limitations
Knowing your passion: If I “collected a library full of books” as Craig illustrated, I have demonstrated a passion for books. The more time I spend reading and collecting books the more fulfilled and satisfied I am. This is also true with relationships. I never tire of spending time with family. It’s not natural for a woman to be unfulfilled with passionately raising her children. Feminism has robbed you of a nurturing spirit.
Knowing your limitations: Marriage is a business and in every business there is division of labor. Everyone in the process trusts that the guy before him is doing his job. If there is no trust, something is wrong. Tasks are not divided equally and not one person does every task though some think they can – I call them jack(a***s)-of-all-trades. Everyone has an area of expertise and there are also areas of cross training so there is always someone to pick up the slack. I know I’m not skilled in raising children but I’m a good provider. There are also women who are not good providers but they are passionate about children (CAN I GET AN AMEN). I will spend 20% (+or- 20%) of my time with my children and my wife will spend 80% (+or- 20%) of her time with the children. The relationship will be built on mutual trust. Feminism has robbed you of the freedom of trust.
-Mick
October 28, 2007 at 1:56 am
Holy cow! I stopped by the web-site after a week’s absence to see what’s going on. And quite a bit is actually going on.))))
I am actually tempted to side with Visiting Girl in some ways. I think that a lot of men who think that Russian women are perfect end up idealizing us in way too many ways. Yes, we do think that being a mother is super important, but the absolute majority of Russian women do not end up spending 100% of our time raising the kids.
Most of us always have our own mothers to rely on. In fact, a lot of women from my own generation (20-35 years old at the moment) were in part raised by our grandparents. The first thing I did when I got pregnant was to call my sister and see if she could come live with me the first 2 weeks after my due date to help out. My mom was going to come a month after to “let me sleep every once in a while” as she put it. 🙂
I myself was with my mom the first year or two, as far as I remember. My mom then went back to teaching. She is a literature professor and that did allow for flexible hours, I suppose. She did have another teenager to raise while I was little.
I do know that mothers in Russia are probably more inclined to limit their professional development to take care of their kids, I know my mom did, but nobody is speaking extremes. :))) Babushkas are always an resource for maintaining emotional and intellectual sanity. It is hard to imagine for a man how much your world narrows once you have a child.)))
And yes, it is incredibly hard to be a stay-at-home mom the whole time. Gratifying, enjoyable, but hard. And yes, I need my own mommy to be a good mommy myself. Just like she needed hers. And, hopefully, the same way my own daugthers will.
Also, ironically, a lot of Russian women I know that got married to Americans claim that one of the reasons they considered American men was because you guys tend to be better “family men” and help out with children more than Russian men usually do.
Nastya
October 28, 2007 at 6:18 am
I have no problem with family helping out raising children, or even a babysitter once in a while. What I have a problem with is women who drop their kids off every day for a stranger to raise because their only goal is to get up the corperate ladder. Heck, I”m have trouble with what children are being taught in public schools now days.
October 28, 2007 at 2:44 pm
Ladies,
I’m starting to understand your position. This debate isn’t about children – it’s about the home. 100 years ago we wouldn’t be having this discussion. A woman’s place was in the home and there was an enormous amount of work to be done. There was a fire to stoke, water to bucket, clothes to sew, food to prepare (2/3 of a woman’s day was dedicated to meals) and children to tend. Today a stay at home mom wakes up to a home heated with central air, takes a 5 minute hot shower, gets dressed in the new outfit she bought off the sale rack at Macy’s and discovers not one of her 100 pairs of shoes match her new outfit, cooks breakfast in <1 minute in the microwave and tends to her children. THOSE DARN CHILDREN. Tending children turns out to be the lasting duty that holds women home. Tasks have been condensed into a neatly packaged 30 minute routine and there are no surrogate appliances that substitute a mother’s touch. Through our advancements we have regressed and somewhere women have lost their way.
Wolverine: I agree with you about the public schools. They are now passing out contraceptives to girls as young as 11 without the parents consent.
-Mick
October 28, 2007 at 8:55 pm
Mick,
This is, actually, quite funny.))) A lot of women in Russia rely on their relatives for help with children simply because they HAVE TO get out of the house to make money.
You know, that most places in Russia STILL have problems getting proper AC regularly. And it IS an underdevelopped country economically if you look beyond Moscow and Saint Petersburg.
This is really not an issue of vanity, you know. My mom had to teach at her university and then run around the city tutoring, just so that my brother could have the very pair of jeans he wanted and so that I could have my 2 French lessons a week.
My God mother, after her husband left the family, had to quit her PhD-level work, which did not pay anything, and go to Siberia to buy clothing to re-sell it at local markets to make sure that her daughter has proper music education.
Oh, don’t look down on Russian women for that!
Another thing that came to mind: an average family would NEVER make their daughter sacrifice her university degree to take care of her child. If the child comes first, the family steps in and the young mother starts taking classes at night to take care of the child during the day.
It is not like we sit around the birches all day.
Have a look at this article on the economic conditions in which most mothers are raising their children: http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20070308/61723967.html
Nastya
October 29, 2007 at 1:07 am
I have no trouble with my future wife doing some work outside the home, or maybe doing some work from home to make some money. What I do have a rpblem with is that same woman dropping my children off at a daycare for strangers to teach my children questionable values or no values at all, and telling them the disrespece is just another way of expressing yourself.
Mick: The contraceptives are only one part of the problem I see. Frankly, I don’t want my children in the school system. I would like for my wife to homeschool them. At least we would have some kind of control of the values taught to our children. And I’m sure my wife would need a day or weekend away, and I would be glad to make that possible.
My mother raising my children can be a scarry thought sometimes too…… 😀
October 29, 2007 at 11:45 am
I agree with VisitingGirl mostly..
I think that a woman’s main focus should be her family, but that it’s okay if she divides her time too.
As long as the first priority is family. As her husband it would be my duty to help her also have a fulfilling life in other ways. Perhaps she could just work less…
But I couldn’t ask her to give her career up completely. That’s just not fair. Not unless our children are truly not being treated with importance.
October 29, 2007 at 4:45 pm
I couldn’t agree more with wolverine and Mick.
Mainstream schooling, whether public or private, are no longer a viable option.
I would never send my future kids to school.
The trend now will be for people to move in the direction of cocooning… withdrawal from broader society & sticking to small groups of like-minded people… either in our home countries (rural areas, etc.) or abroad.
A prerequisite for this is a certain amount of financial independence.
Lucky for us, being the first to see through this shit they call modern life…. we tender to be smarter than the Average Joes. Accumulating a bit of capital shouldn’t be -too- difficult.
October 29, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Nastya,
You’re misunderstanding me. I’m referring to American women exclusively. I’m well aware of what conditions are like in Russia and around the world (I watch the Discovery Channel too) and if you’ve watched any of the pollution on MTV you’ll follow what I’m implying.
-Mick
October 29, 2007 at 10:26 pm
Mick,
Be more specific then. You were responding both to me and the Visiting Girl, while we were not, in fact, arguing the exact same thing. Also, I am from Russia, and Visiting Girl is from England, I think, right???
The Discovery Channel is not the best source, I think))) From the insider’s perspective, it seems a bit too dramatic and prone to exagerations.
Nastya
October 30, 2007 at 12:26 am
Pardon me. You’re right, I’ve wasted too much of my life arguing with women who really don’t care what I have to say. I’m moving on from this topic. I want to discuss other things but before I leave this post I want to say that I’ve grown a beard for over a year now to remind women (just in case they’ve forgotten) I AM THE MAN.
-Mick
October 30, 2007 at 12:45 am
I agree with Nastya, the western media often slant their coverage of Russia and her people. There’s a great deal of ignorance here in the U.S. about other countries and cultures. What many Americans can’t understand is that most of the world does NOT want to be like us.
October 30, 2007 at 1:10 am
Taras,
Unfortunately the way the masses globally are lapping up your American pop culture suggests that they do.
It’s a minority everywhere that sees through the facade.
Sad. As recently as 50 years ago, you guys could have boasted one of the greatest civilizations in recent history.
And now it’s more like one of the worst. 😦
October 30, 2007 at 2:15 am
It is hard for me to see why women would willingly embrace and proclaim as their goal a way of life that until recently was considered one of the hardest – that of a working mother. Only until feminism nearly mandated that a woman must work (Communism did that too, but nobody really seems to remember) has it become de rigeur that all women must live this life of duality. Ever wonder why the numbers of western women on drugs for psychological disorders is increasing? Diety once said that “a man cannot serve two masters,” and those who know the story, probably understand He wasn’t just talking about money. To embrace duality of any kind is to embrace insanity. Ayn Rand, who brought to light some great ideas, even understood the importance of motherhood to understand that it was not for her. She could understand that a career and motherhood could not successfully co-exist. For this reason, she never had children.
I am so grateful that my own mother could understand that it takes more than part-time to raise children that can successfully handle life on earth. She understood that “fine” is not enough. And I well understand her reasoning for committment now. The world is far too sinister, confusing, and enslaving, to make it “fine” to churn out a few of your precious children in only a “fine” state to handle the world on their own. No. It takes far more than “fine,” and a mother should want to give a hell of a lot more than “fine” to her children. Try the Best.
I am someone who cannot stand mediocrities. The world loves mediocrities – just look at the people plastered over magazines for social consumption. Mediocre is not good enough for any child.
I remember a time when I thought similarly to you, Visiting Girl, but leaned more toward not having children because I felt I did not want to give them the commitment I instinctively knew they required (I helped raise four younger siblings). A period of reflection about my existence and the purpose of my being as a woman, a girl where I was at that time, brought about the revelation that my existence as a female was far more important than the world would have me think.
If you take time to reflect, asking yourself, “what, at my very core, am I? what after that, and after the next thing” peeling away the layers of your being from the inside out, reflecting upon your most primal essence, you may realize that your femininity is far too precious to waste on corporate endeavors. I know I did, however my path is not yours. But I think it is the best.
October 30, 2007 at 11:20 pm
Everywhere I look, I see signs of the approaching collapse of the U.S. Culturally it is an open sewer literally. As for the rest of the world “lapping it up,” well there are two reasons for that. One is people are being brainwashed six ways to Sunday and the other is they have no alternatives. I’ve rejected much of Amerikan pop culture years ago….I loathe it with a passion. Not doubt about it Socon, it’s going down the tubes fast here.
October 31, 2007 at 1:29 am
Socon wrote: “The trend now will be for people to move in the direction of cocooning… withdrawal from broader society & sticking to small groups of like-minded people… either in our home countries (rural areas, etc.) or abroad.”
Retreating isn’t the answer (at least for now). The challenge is being in the world but not of the world.
-Mick
October 31, 2007 at 3:24 am
“home countries (rural areas, etc.) or abroad.”
Well, the real strength of the USA is the rural part of the USA, anyway. And yeah, it definately is a great way to escape from the “sewer culture”. But if you are at a rural college then part of that escape unfortunately gets canceled out by all the “Wymyn’s Studies” misandry and the PC and Marxist crap that comes out of the college itself.
But imagine if I had to live in a cramped city where misandry was everywhere and everything is cramped and I was at college at the same time with the Wymyn’s Studies misandry and the PC crap on top of the regular misandry coming out of the city and the fact that cities are noisy and crowded and cramped and I don’t like them at all (except for Krakow and some of the Polish cities).
That would be unbearable.